Help with what stage and lease wording please!

DoaM

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203631441-Parking-Ticketing-Ltd

https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203629961-SolutionLabs-Ltd

???

The latter looks more likely.

http://www.bmpa.eu/company_guide_p_to_s.html

Brundlecat

Thanks so much for all of this info. I will scan and add letter now. I don't have photos but can get them if needed.
I wasn't planning to tell the keeper to contest the signage as the space is owed by me. I am the leaseholder of the space and was aware of it's use. I was suggesting the keeper who now has the NTKs contests on the grounds that the driver was permitted to park there and the only reason the permit wasn't displayed is that it hadn't been received from the management company. My lease clearly states the right for exclusive use of the parking space. Do I still need to contest the signs in this case?
A conversation between the Management company and myself as the leaseholder is documented on email and took place before the issue of the first NTK.

MSE is saying as a new user I can't post links either :-(

I've tried a work around by posting below not sure if it will work.

Brundlecat

Links seem to be working now?

front of letter http://tinypic.com/r/qo7wgo/9

Brundlecat

Back of letter http://tinypic.com/r/15hydxu/9

Brundlecat

Ok, so I have tried to read as much as possible and I think now my course of action is to send the IPC letter in the Newbies forum and wait for rejections from each appeal. The first NTK is already outside their 28 days and has a debt notice. Should I mention that? Is it even worth it if they are going to reject them all anyway?

I know there is set text but it feels very strange for the keeper not to mention that the driver was parked with the express permission of myself the leaseholder of the space, would this not be considered circumstances for a slamdunk win and therefore encourage them not to pursue to IAS or court? I own the parking space! I am not even a tenant I purchased the flat and the space 8 years ago. The vehicle in question was actually still displaying a parking permit from the last cowboys they hired to manage the estate. The keeper does not own the space but the driver parked there with my express permission.

Should I also write to the Landowner and complain about the management company and the tickets and harassment of the keeper given I have a lease with them? And tell them I am doing this?

Here is what I have now drafted, I've added in the info about space ownership and contacting the landowner but can remove if you think that is better? It just feels off not to mention this as it's a key point in the appeal. I also have copies of the parking lease plan, and the relevant parts of the Lease of Part I can give the keeper, and if needed I could also do a permission letter for the driver but that would reveal who they are. TIA for any help, I really appreciate it!

Dear Regent Parking

Re PCN number:

I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge, issued under an alleged contract and the driver has not been identified, I wish to contest the charge based on the below:

The alleged contravention did not occur.
The vehicle was not parked inappropriately at the time the ticket was issued. This is due to the fact that the vehicle was parked in the allocated parking space with the express permission of the owner and leaseholder of said parking space. Please see attached evidence of ownership provided by the leaseholder as proof of my claim.

Additionally please be advised that the leaseholders will be escalating a further complaint to the landowner about the matter if this charge is not cancelled with immediate effect.

I now require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company? I require their contact details.
2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?
3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority.
4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
6. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Answer yes or no.
7. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.
8. Please provide a copy of the signs that you can evidence were on site and which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion, as well as all photographs taken of this vehicle.

If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.

However, in my opinion, there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that you cancel these charges on the basis that this space was being utilised with the permission of the leaseholder.

If you do fail to accept this fact and wish to proceed further I would like to suggest that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service - which lacks any transparency and possibly any independence from the IPC - unlike the alternative offered by the British Parking Association, POPLA, which is transparent and has been shown to be independent.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to such contact and to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your costs which are not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.

Yours faithfully,

Umkomaas

Add what you like provided the identification of the driver is not revealed. It's extremely unlikely that it will make one jot of difference to your appeal to the PPC. They are not interested in fair play, or even legal standing, especially where there's the slightest whiff of blood (aka money in PPC land).

Brundlecat

Thank you so much Umkomaas I really appreciate you help in all of this.

So, just a final check on my understanding:

keeper applies, not giving up driver, they almost certainly reject

Then keeper basically ignores anything except notification of court proceedings, is that right?

Meanwhile if keeper wants to they can write to debt collector telling them debt denied and not to contact again and I can write to Landowner as another avenue.

At this stage, and given it's 4 PCNs should we just pay? Is this losing battle even though the driver did nothing wrong?!

Umkomaas

You seem to have most of that. The problem is that you've effectively joined a Wild West show, an unregulated industry, where the small man is left to battle large organisations determined to fleece him of money.

You can appeal, but there's no guarantees it will work. You can send debt collectors 'cease and desist' letters, but they will probably ignore you.

There's nothing for sure in all this until a judge settles the case for or against you. But this isn't a reason to pay. Why should you give a third party lots of money for allegedly contravening some poxy, made-up-in-their-favour rules. Don't be afraid of going to court - but there's no record of NSGL doing court, so it may never happen. And even if it goes that far a judge should give you a very fair hearing and with a good defence, you have a good chance of winning.

Unfortunately the PPC has 6 years in which to pursue you to court.

But that's it, no magic wand to wave over this to take it away, but definitely now is not the time to consider making any form of payment. Let things play out and see what manoeuvres NSGL next try to pull. We're always here to support you.

Fruitcake

Brundlecat wrote: »

Thank you so much Umkomaas I really appreciate you help in all of this.

So, just a final check on my understanding:

keeper applies, not giving up driver, they almost certainly reject

Yes

Then keeper basically ignores anything except notification of court proceedings, is that right?

Yes

Meanwhile if keeper wants to they can write to debt collector telling them debt denied and not to contact again and I can write to Landowner as another avenue.

Yes and definitely Yes.

At this stage, and given it's 4 PCNs should we just pay? Is this losing battle even though the driver did nothing wrong?!

NO, NO, and thrice NO!

If you pay them, it will never stop. One day your permit will fall down, or the parking scumpany will say it is a photocopy, or you will forget to pass it to another car user, and they will come after you again because you will have proven to be a soft touch.

You will also be perpetuating this so that others will get scammed.

DO NOT PAY!

Brundlecat

Thank you thank you thank you.... this is all really clear. I will get my appeal letters out today, You have all been great and I will come back if the keeper gets court letters.

Just quickly on that, the keeper will be moving shortly and therefore re-registering her car. I assume if they send court papers to the old address after any re-direction period has ended then they havent been served?

And can the keeper be taken to court?

Thanks you for everything!