Parking Eye WelcomeBreak (timing issues?)

oskiwowwow

[FONT=&quot]Hello,
Newbie here who has read the newbie thread (though as you'll see missed a step), but still needing advice.

Basics:
10 May 2016: parked at Welcome Break services off A-road (not motorway). En route to appointment, while in Starbuck's found out appointment postponed three hours. Stayed three hours without noticing the limit was two. (Would have left or paid, probably left.)

ParkingEye sent PCN. It was missing a line of address, so sat in a pile of misdelivered post and did not reach us until about 10 July. On 11 July, having read these forums, I appealed online with ParkingEye. Told them it had incorrect address and was just received. Explained about staying over and that signs were not noticeable etc (they are borderline). Used language from forums here to add that charges are outrageous etc. Offered to pay £10. (Don't scream people please, I had stayed over the limit accidentally, so legally should have paid.) DID NOT name driver etc. Gave email address etc. as on form.

Received no response from ParkingEye via email or acknowledgement of appeal.

Yesterday heard we had another letter from ParkingEye - at corrected address though we have since moved.

Yesterday read forum posts and realised we should have contacted retailer first. (Yes, somehow missed that. Drat.) So rang the manager of the WelcomeBreak. Manager not available but person on phone helpful and knew all about ParkingEye. Said they are a nightmare even for them to deal with! Said to send a scan of the PCN and explanation about incorrect address etc and they'd see what they could do. Emailed them as soon as off the phone though it was after 5pm Friday by then. Explained we are happy to pay original charge and £10 as late fee. (Yes many people say don't offer but again we were legally wrong so made the offer. We are going to fight the £100 charge of course!)

Today received ParkingEye letter dated 5 August. Letter states that appeal had not been lodged in time etc. It does NOT acknowledge the incorrect address and delayed delivery. It threatens court ("PE is prepared to pursue this matter through the County Court if necessary" etc) but just says to pay the charge. Includes a list of FAQs. Does mention POFA 2012. Also says "you would have been able to appeal to POPLA" if appeal had been received on time. Happy to post copy of letter. Note letter does not state any DATE of further action.

QUESTIONS:
1. Obviously if retailer successfully dismisses charges there is no more to do here. How long to wait for their action?

2. If retailer says they can't help, what exactly is the next step to "appeal" when they claim we lost that right? Obviously not our fault original PCN not received and we don't even have envelope because someone at the address opened it eventually, found it was not theirs, held it for probably a month+, then we received it without envelope!

There is a wealth of knowledge and experience in this forum that is VERY impressive. Thanks to all who patiently answer such queries and thanks in advance too for any helpful advice![/FONT]

Fruitcake

Complain to the BPA that parking lie failed to respond to your original appeal at your correct address. As a result it arrived too late for keeper liability to apply. Send them copies of your appeal with proof of sending, and state the date the PCN arrived (10th July.)
Then complain that you made a second appeal within 1 day of receiving the PCN but this has been discounted.
Again send proof of submitting your second appeal.

Send copies to parking lie as well.

Contact the service station manager in writing and ask him/her to cancel the PCN.

Umkomaas

we were legally wrong so made the offer

'LEGALLY' wrong?

Why, were you parked on the motorway?

oskiwowwow

Thanks for replies:

Fruitcake: The first receipt of original PCN was at incorrect address. Received two months after "violation". Appeal was made online and so have no proof of posting, just have a couple of screenshots. Sorry if my post was unclear. So, have made only one appeal so far and only response from PE dated 3 weeks 4 days after online appeal sent. This time they corrected the address. Letter does not turn down appeal just says we lost right to appeal because too late - although we did not receive the PCN until almost two months after it was supposedly sent. (And have no way of knowing when they actually sent it either.)

Wrote to WelcomeBreak manager via email but could follow-up by post.

Umkomaas: "Legally" because it is private property and obviously they have the right to charge us the parking fee where signs state we have to pay if staying over two hours. We stayed three. I'm fairly certain a court would throw me out if I tried to say it was illegal for them to charge me! :-)

Overall: still curious what the time frame is or should be on all this. Not sure how long PE will give us to respond to this notice, since they did not say! And unsure what might be legal requirement (if any) for them or us at this stage re: timing. Their letter gives no further options but to pay.

Umkomaas

Nothing illegal. You need to understand the difference between illegal and unlawful, which hopefully will give you better positioning to fight this.

From OxfordDictionaries:

Illegal and unlawful have slightly different meanings, although they are often used interchangeably. Something that is illegal is against the law, whereas an unlawful act merely contravenes the rules that apply in a particular context.

You have not broken any law.

oskiwowwow

Thanks, v helpful.

Still hopeful for further advice here on timing and next steps.

oskiwowwow

Update (and still need help/answers).

I heard back from the WelcomeBreak manager. Not very helpful. Said they couldn't do anything about the fact PCN went to incorrect address (I knew that, was simply explaining to them why the timing was so late). Though I asked for a reduction, they didn't address it in the phone message. FWIW also a non-British accent, so uncertain how much of my message was understood. (Perhaps all, but unknown.)

So question remains (and is important) - what is the timing on PE chasing this?

I understand now that we lost right of appeal because PE sent the PCN to the wrong address. PE do not care and simply sent a "you still owe £100 or we take you to court" notice to the correct address.
Any ideas how much time I have to try to get this changed/cancelled?
Date of parking 10 May 2016
Received PCN 10 July 2016
Appealed via online form 11 July 2016 (not clear then it wouldn't be accepted)
Notice from PE dated 5 August refuses appeal.
I am unemployed but this process is so tortuous that it is tempting to pay £100 to make it go away. Yes, that will upset people here and I absolutely understand why.

Problem for us is that we DID overstay and "should" have paid. The only real leg we have to stand on, should it go further, is that the charges are silly high.

I understand the best option is a sympathetic WB manager, but this one sounds unsympathetic and suggested we contact WB head office. Am considering one last appeal to them to be kind as we are good customers and tell them they CAN ask PE for a reduction (to say £20).

Further advice welcome.

Coupon-mad

The only real leg we have to stand on, should it go further, is that the charges are silly high.

Nope, that's the one thing you CANNOT stand on! That is not a defence point, you are wrong to think it might be. You cannot argue the excessive amount of the charge.

ParkingEye sent PCN. It was missing a line of address, so sat in a pile of misdelivered post and did not reach us until about 10 July.

Complain to the BPA that you have been denied a POPLA code because PE missed a line off your address, their error. Copy in PE and push again for a POPLA code:

aos@britishparking.co.uk

and

info@parkingeye.co.uk

Then complain again if they fob you off, point out that ADR is meant to be made available for a year and this is clearly unfair. If you manage to get a POPLA code after moaning and moaning again, replying to every email and not giving up, then come back here. Unless you want to lose the appeal, you will not be writing a POPLA appeal about the charge being high...

HTH

oskiwowwow

Thank you Coupon-mad for the quick reply. I should be more careful how I word things, as I did read all the FAQs and understand what you've explained. I guess even though this forum exists to help people fight companies like PE, the charges (which most seem to think are outrageous) are allowed to stand by the courts or POPLA.

So, two more quick ones:
1. I have just re-read the letter dated 5 August. PE says "we recently sent you a LBCCC". However, the only other correspondence we have ever received is the original PCN, then this one. Does that make a difference?

2. Considering the above question, does your advice on BPA still stand?

I've read all the FAQs again but as we seem to be missing some correspondence, I'm unclear on where PE stands.

Redx

IMHO it gives you more ammunition to complain to the BPA about missing post and incorrect addresses

I would do as CM says, and add a note about the non-existent or incorrectly addressed LBCCC too

these PPC,s dont really care where the post goes, because all they want is court claims that are undefended , then it costs the defendant £255 for a set aside, if they do it

the trick is to keep plugging away and dont get a CCJ by default due to incorrectly addressed paperwork

oskiwowwow

Thanks both.

Will have one last attempt with site manager while also writing to BPA today.

Your help appreciated!