Dryden fairfax chasing late father's debt

Fromie

Hi

First timer so hope this is the right place to post.

Dryden Fairfax are chasing a credit card debt left by my late father. He got into a bit of a mess with his finances and Step Change was dealing with it all.

My dad left no estate and my mum still lives in their house which is in her name only now. It is my understanding that only my dad's estate is liable for this debt and they can't chase my mother. This has been accepted by his other creditors who have written off the debt.

DF are now askING me to provide a long list of documents including: last two months bank statements before his death (joint account with my mum), funeral invoice, details of DWP pension, funeral grants etc, details of life insurance policies (already advised there are none), details of property owned by my dad (only house which mum lives in and they already know that), other assets owned in cars, etc (already advised there are no assets), details of other liabilities.

My feeling no is to write back and reiterate there is no estate and that my mother is not liable for this debt and to refer them back to Step Change.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

MEM62

Are you the executor of his estate?

If so I would write back (politely) to confirm that you father had no assets outside of the house that your mother now lives in. If they have an issue with that they can always make an inquiry with the Probate Service. You might want to take advice re the status of the house. If the debt is large enough to make it worth their while they may explore the possibility of claiming against that as an asset.

Fromie

Thanks for your reply. His estate did not require probate as everything was left to my mother and there was only the house anyway. Although I am named as an executor, in reality I am just dealing with all his financial matters on my mum's behalf.

One of his other creditors confirmed that my mother is not liable for the debt and that no creditor can make any claim on their house which is now in my mum's sole name. Apparently if there was no CCJ then they can't put a charge on the house anyway.

It was only a small debt so I think they are just being awkward. My mum has no money to pay this debt anyway.

jonesMUFCforever

Fromie wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. His estate did not require probate as everything was left to my mother and there was only the house anyway. Although I am named as an executor, in reality I am just dealing with all his financial matters on my mum's behalf.

One of his other creditors confirmed that my mother is not liable for the debt and that no creditor can make any claim on their house which is now in my mum's sole name. Apparently if there was no CCJ then they can't put a charge on the house anyway.

It was only a small debt so I think they are just being awkward. My mum has no money to pay this debt anyway.

Was the house owned as joint tenants or tenants in common?
There is an important difference in law which could decide whether the company can claim the amount owed from your late father's estate.

Basically joint tenants means the property automatically moves from jointly owned to the survivor and no claim can be made against the value of the house.

If tenants in common his half of the house forms part of his estate - his will would have determined if his share was to go to your mother. However in this case the company could say that his estate comprised half the value of the house and become awkward.
How much is actually owed?

(Be very careful if you do decide to find funds to pay this, as the executor you are supposed to treat all debts equally - ie you can't favour one debt over another).

redpete

Fromie wrote: »

Although I am named as an executor, in reality I am just dealing with all his financial matters on my mum's behalf.

If you are an executor you have legally defined responsibilities, you can't dismiss these and claim to be just helping your mum out.

bris

Fromie wrote: »

Although I am named as an executor, in reality I am just dealing with all his financial matters on my mum's behalf.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, as an executer you can be held liable for the debt if you have messed up.


They have the right to know what the estate entailed in detail, you can't just dismiss them.

Thrugelmir

Fromie wrote: »

Although I am named as an executor, in reality I am just dealing with all his financial matters on my mum's behalf.

Were you the executor? As being an executor holds legal responsibilities. Failure to undertake this properly can result in personal liability. Simply ignoring communications isn't the way to resolve matters.

CLAPTON

national debtlines view on the matter


https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/21%20EW%20Dealing%20with%20debts%20when%20someone%20dies/Default.aspx

Joint tenants

If you owned the property as ‘joint tenants’ then the property passes automatically to the surviving owner. However, it is possible for creditors to apply for an ‘insolvency administration order’ within five years of the person dying. This allows the court to order the surviving owner to pay the value of the deceased person’s equity into the estate, (for example, half the equity).

If any of the creditors threaten to do this, it might be possible to negotiate paying a smaller amount in settlement of the debt rather than lose the house. The court will usually decide that the interests of the creditors are the most important, unless there are exceptional circumstances.

Although this is a rare procedure, it makes it very important that a surviving owner negotiates with any creditors to make arrangements to pay the debts. It may prevent the insolvency administration procedure being used by creditors

cheesetoast

While they can ask for this and that and everything else, in reality, as executor you can just provide them with a breakdown of the estate in a letter, which may look like this:

ASSETS AT TIME OF DEATH:
House - Valued at £100,000, but passed to wife on death as held on a Joint Tenants basis.
Cash in hand - Nil
Cash in bank - Nil

Total of assets held in Estate: Nil

LIABILITIES AT TIME OF DEATH:
Not disclosed as Estate is insolvent.

And tell them to have a good day. They'll find it pretty difficult to sue a deceased person, and any solicitor in the land would laugh them out of the office if they tried suing an executor of an insolvent (i.e. empty) Estate.

Of course, the reason they're asking for all this and that documentation, is that they don't trust or believe you. If it were a solicitor writing them that, they'd probably just take it and go away.

jonesMUFCforever

So far the OP has not confirmed joint tenancy.

Thrugelmir

cheesetoast wrote: »

And tell them to have a good day. They'll find it pretty difficult to sue a deceased person, and any solicitor in the land would laugh them out of the office if they tried suing an executor of an insolvent (i.e. empty) Estate.

Alternatively.

If you owned the property as ‘joint tenants’ then the property passes automatically to the surviving owner. However, it is possible for creditors to apply for an ‘insolvency administration order’ within five years of the person dying. This allows the court to order the surviving owner to pay the value of the deceased person’s equity into the estate, (for example, half the equity).

If any of the creditors threaten to do this, it might be possible to negotiate paying a smaller amount in settlement of the debt rather than lose the house. The court will usually decide that the interests of the creditors are the most important, unless there are exceptional circumstances.

Although this is a rare procedure, it makes it very important that a surviving owner negotiates with any creditors to make arrangements to pay the debts. It may prevent the insolvency administration procedure being used by creditors.