Vehicle Control Services - Court Claim Form

Quentin

IamEmanresu wrote: »

Why not answer the question?

You are the one that brought this up = #7


Since then you have been asked why you see this sign to be so significant the OP should cave in and offer £125 as a starter to settle the matter.


Can't you help the OP by telling him and us why this sign means his defence cannot succeed?


You tell us in all your posts that there is better advice elsewhere on the net - did you get this one about a clamping sign there?

rjr2016

Thanks everyone for your responses. I have contacted the pub landlord and he informed me that he has faced a long legal battle with this issue, and spent over £7000 on it. I've tried calling him but no answer; I honestly think he has had a lot of stress over this and probably out of energy when it comes to people like me asking him for advice on it.

I've called Citizen's Advice and Civil Legal Advice helpline. They have both told me to put together my defence (summed up perfectly by Herzlos below) and to fight the claim.

* There's essentially no signage
* It looks like more or less any other back-of-pub parking
* The parking warden presumably witnessed the driver parking and never said anything.
* There's no commercial justification
* It's unlikely VCS own the site or have a proper contract
* There's no keeper liability
* It's (seemingly) a permit-only site, so no contract to park without a permit, so can only be trespass

I'm also leaning towards making a counterclaim in terms of the hours I've had to spend so far (and those over this weekend - taking photos of the site and writing up my defence), travel and food costs to get from Derby to Northampton county court and the fact I will probably need to take a day off work to attend court. I imagine this will come to far higher than the £238 they want from me and I'm hoping this will make them realise I mean business.

Does anyone know the answers to the following questions:
- I've seen people say they've used £19/hour when charging their own time - is this backed up by any legal guidelines?
- On that note, is there a generic sum I can charge for having to take a day off work?
- Is there a risk that if I make this claim that VCS will raise their claim as retaliation?

Thanks again everyone, this is the first time I've posted in the forum and I'm blown away by the help and advice provided so far!

rjr2016

By the way, I just got home from work and had a letter from 'bwlegal' confirming that they are taking me to court and to call them straight away to arrange payment. This indicates to me that they are using the court claim form to scare me into paying, which I must admit almost worked last night when I first got it. I am determined to go to court if that's what they want to do. I hate to think how many people they've done this to.

Quentin

You won't be going to Northampton!

If they decide to proceed after getting your defence then you will choose whereabouts.

You choose your nearest county court

The_Deep

- I've seen people say they've used £19/hour when charging their own time - is this backed up by any legal guidelines?

Indeed, there have been cases where judges have agreed exemplary damages due to unreasonable behaviour, the rules are here (see 14(2)(g)

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27

But I doubt that this will ever get to court, the PPC will almost certainy wimp out as they have a threadbare case. Warn them of the financial consequence should they persist and you prevail.

Herzlos

rjr2016 wrote: »

- I've seen people say they've used £19/hour when charging their own time - is this backed up by any legal guidelines?

It's the court approved rate, I don't have a reference though.

- On that note, is there a generic sum I can charge for having to take a day off work?

I think it's about £90

- Is there a risk that if I make this claim that VCS will raise their claim as retaliation?

They can't - they can only hold you to the alleged contract amount + legal fees.

You might be best waiting until you beat them and then handing an expenses request to the judge.

You can also request it to be heard in your local court, Northampton is just a clearing centre.

Herzlos

Quentin wrote: »

Since then you have been asked why you see this sign to be so significant the OP should cave in and offer £125 as a starter to settle the matter.


Can't you help the OP by telling him and us why this sign means his defence cannot succeed?

That's what I thought. Your advice is normally spot on, so maybe you've spotted something there that I've missed, but I completely fail to grasp why a single small sign that mentions clamping will aid VCS in this case? Purely because it means there's been scammers hunting on it for at least 4 years? Because if so, I can't see how that'd affect someone who isn't local. Sure, the pub landlord should probably have a massive sign on the door warning people not to park there.

HO87

Looking at historic GSV images (June 2015) which is as close to the time that the OP received his PCN as we can get, the signage is not about wheelclamping but bears the headers - "PRIVATE PROPERTY - Valid Permit Holders"



I know it is very grainy but I suspect that that sign might therefore be forbidding (if it is indeed these signs that VCS will be relying on) and did not therefore contain a contractual offer.

No Contractual offer = no breach of contract.

Further to that there are black & white signs on the fence adjoining the pub that say "Exeter Arms Customer Parking Only" which disappear in later GSV images.

Further to the above a little research reveals what would seem to be a more legible version of the above - albeit in B&W.



I'm sorry but I don't any reference to wheelclamping. Is there something I'm missing?

rjr2016

The Deep - I've seen people say they've used £19/hour when charging their own time - is this backed up by any legal guidelines?

Indeed, there have been cases where judges have agreed exemplary damages due to unreasonable behaviour, the rules are here (see 14(2)(g)

But I doubt that this will ever get to court, the PPC will almost certainy wimp out as they have a threadbare case. Warn them of the financial consequence should they persist and you prevail.

---

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like my options are:
1) respond to the court claim form and reject the claim. Hand judge my expenses in the court.
2) respond to the court claim form, reject the claim and make a counter claim.

I'm leaning more towards option 1) because if I take option 2) then BW legal / VCS won't know that I am claiming off them. I don't want to contact them separately via phone or email as I imagine they are not going to be reasonable people and therefore it probably will not achieve a lot.

System

This indicates to me that they are using the court claim form to scare me into paying, which I must admit almost worked last night when I first got it.

It's not. They are supposed to attempt to resolve the issue.

As regards the case, the judge will look at the pics and the first question he/she will ask, is does this look like a car park. The marked bays give it away. And what does a normal person do when they get to a car park which is look for the signs.

Claiming "a defence will succeed" shows lack of awareness of what actually goes on in court. At best it's 50/50. Even less when up against a advocate.

But press on with your quality advice.