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Condition Rating 3 on Homebuyer's survey - who pays?
stiggy786
Posts: 2 Newbie
Hello all,
First time buyer and long time lurker on this forum. Needing advice as per title.
We have had an offer accepted on a 20 year old 2 bedroom flat in a purpose built block. The mortgage has been approved and formal offer rec'd. Solicitor is conducting local searches.
Upon viewing the property, things seemed to be in reasonable condition but the Homebuyer's report flagged the following internal items as condition rating '3': "defects that are serious and/or requiring urgent repair, replacement or investigation." Please note that the surveyor's valuation was the same as the agreed purchase price.
1: G1 Electricity
Mains electricity is connected. The meter was not located and is assumed to be within a communal hallway cupboard. The consumer unit is located in the bedroom.
There is a loose switch in the hot water cylinder cupboard and the system does not appear to have been professionally checked in recent years. The complete installation should now be checked by an appropriate specialist registered with either the NICEIC or similar approved body prior to exchange of contracts. Some repair work or upgrading is likely to be necessary. Condition rating 3.
2: G2 Gas/oil
Mains gas supply is connected, with a meter located in a cupboard in the communal hallway. In view of the guidance above and as a matter of safety, you should now arrange for the installation and all gas appliances to be inspected and tested by a Gas Safe engineer prior to exchange of contracts. Condition rating 3.
3: G4 Heating
The property has a conventional gas fired central heating system with a boiler which feeds a series of radiators in the various rooms. There are defects to the heating system including a lack of ventilation to the boiler cupboard and the control knob to the boiler appears suspect. You should now arrange for a Gas Safe engineer to check and test the system prior to exchange of contracts. Condition rating 3.
3: G5 Water Heating
Hot water is provided by the main heating boiler and is stored in a hot water storage cylinder. See our comments in sections G1 and G4 above. Condition rating 3.
I contacted the EA expressing our concern that these 4 elements are integral to the property and have been flagged as a safety concern and we would like for them to be addressed prior to exchange and done to an appropriate level of quality. EA replied after talking to vendor stating that these things are just the surveyor covering their own back. Vendor has offered to let us come round and show that all these services are working but I am not a gas safe engineer or an electrician. Showing us that gas is working doesn't mean there wouldn't be a dangerous leak after moving in, showing us that hot water coming doesn't mean boiler won't need to be replaced after moving in.
What we would like to know:
1. How should we proceed with these advisories?
2. If NICEIC electrician and gas safe engineers attend to give quotations, who should pay for these (us or vendor)?
3. If the assessments and quotations reveal urgent work to be done, who should pay for this (us or vendor)?
4. If a negotiation in agreed purchase price is required, at what stage should this be done? (now, or after quotations)?
I feel that replacing boiler or rewiring electrics could cost upto £4000-5000, we do not have this spare cash to spend iminently.
On one hand I feel that these issues will put off any other prospective buyer if we pull out, and so it is in vendor's best interests to pay for these to be addressed, however I would not want them to use a cheap cowboy to reduce their costs since they won't be benefitting from these upgrades.
On the other hand, we already have a number of sunk costs (solicitor fees, search fees, survey) which we would stand to waste if the purchase did not go through.
We've searched through many similar questions on this forum and others, however there seems to be no consensus regarding with whom the financial onus lies to address such issues. Furthermore, previous posters have been flagged structural issues rather than the service related ones flagged in our case.
Your help and advice would be greatly appreciated as we continue to navigate these (for us) uncharted waters.
First time buyer and long time lurker on this forum. Needing advice as per title.
We have had an offer accepted on a 20 year old 2 bedroom flat in a purpose built block. The mortgage has been approved and formal offer rec'd. Solicitor is conducting local searches.
Upon viewing the property, things seemed to be in reasonable condition but the Homebuyer's report flagged the following internal items as condition rating '3': "defects that are serious and/or requiring urgent repair, replacement or investigation." Please note that the surveyor's valuation was the same as the agreed purchase price.
1: G1 Electricity
Mains electricity is connected. The meter was not located and is assumed to be within a communal hallway cupboard. The consumer unit is located in the bedroom.
There is a loose switch in the hot water cylinder cupboard and the system does not appear to have been professionally checked in recent years. The complete installation should now be checked by an appropriate specialist registered with either the NICEIC or similar approved body prior to exchange of contracts. Some repair work or upgrading is likely to be necessary. Condition rating 3.
2: G2 Gas/oil
Mains gas supply is connected, with a meter located in a cupboard in the communal hallway. In view of the guidance above and as a matter of safety, you should now arrange for the installation and all gas appliances to be inspected and tested by a Gas Safe engineer prior to exchange of contracts. Condition rating 3.
3: G4 Heating
The property has a conventional gas fired central heating system with a boiler which feeds a series of radiators in the various rooms. There are defects to the heating system including a lack of ventilation to the boiler cupboard and the control knob to the boiler appears suspect. You should now arrange for a Gas Safe engineer to check and test the system prior to exchange of contracts. Condition rating 3.
3: G5 Water Heating
Hot water is provided by the main heating boiler and is stored in a hot water storage cylinder. See our comments in sections G1 and G4 above. Condition rating 3.
I contacted the EA expressing our concern that these 4 elements are integral to the property and have been flagged as a safety concern and we would like for them to be addressed prior to exchange and done to an appropriate level of quality. EA replied after talking to vendor stating that these things are just the surveyor covering their own back. Vendor has offered to let us come round and show that all these services are working but I am not a gas safe engineer or an electrician. Showing us that gas is working doesn't mean there wouldn't be a dangerous leak after moving in, showing us that hot water coming doesn't mean boiler won't need to be replaced after moving in.
What we would like to know:
1. How should we proceed with these advisories?
2. If NICEIC electrician and gas safe engineers attend to give quotations, who should pay for these (us or vendor)?
3. If the assessments and quotations reveal urgent work to be done, who should pay for this (us or vendor)?
4. If a negotiation in agreed purchase price is required, at what stage should this be done? (now, or after quotations)?
I feel that replacing boiler or rewiring electrics could cost upto £4000-5000, we do not have this spare cash to spend iminently.
On one hand I feel that these issues will put off any other prospective buyer if we pull out, and so it is in vendor's best interests to pay for these to be addressed, however I would not want them to use a cheap cowboy to reduce their costs since they won't be benefitting from these upgrades.
On the other hand, we already have a number of sunk costs (solicitor fees, search fees, survey) which we would stand to waste if the purchase did not go through.
We've searched through many similar questions on this forum and others, however there seems to be no consensus regarding with whom the financial onus lies to address such issues. Furthermore, previous posters have been flagged structural issues rather than the service related ones flagged in our case.
Your help and advice would be greatly appreciated as we continue to navigate these (for us) uncharted waters.
0
Comments
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Do you realise that NONE of those items need attention? As a seller I'd not discount at all due to any of that.
A surveyor can't say grade 1 to an old style system as it might bite them if something ever goes wrong. Surveyors are also very cautious and have a lot of standard caveats for all aspects of a house.0 -
Normally a surveyor covers their back by telling you to get the electrics and boiler checked, very standard so the EA for once isn't lying there. In this case you've had a good surveyor who's picked up on a couple of extras bits for you. If you choose to get them checked prior to purchase (which is your choice to make if you want to take the risk but sounds like you maybe can't afford to), then you pay for these checks. Seems wrong as you're spending money on a house you don't own yet but it's to potentially save you money if it did need £5k of work....you could either renegotiate the price or walk away.....but you've made that choice based on facts rather than taking a leap into the unknown.0
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glasgowdan wrote: »Do you realise that NONE of those items need attention? As a seller I'd not discount at all due to any of that.
A surveyor can't say grade 1 to an old style system as it might bite them if something ever goes wrong. Surveyors are also very cautious and have a lot of standard caveats for all aspects of a house.
... is the right answer, nothing in any of the OP would stop me buying.0 -
Please note that the surveyor's valuation was the same as the agreed purchase price.
So the surveyor thinks the price is right, all things considered.
Utterly standard.1: G1 Electricity
Mains electricity is connected. The meter was not located and is assumed to be within a communal hallway cupboard. The consumer unit is located in the bedroom.
There is a loose switch in the hot water cylinder cupboard and the system does not appear to have been professionally checked in recent years. The complete installation should now be checked by an appropriate specialist registered with either the NICEIC or similar approved body prior to exchange of contracts. Some repair work or upgrading is likely to be necessary. Condition rating 3.
Utterly standard.2: G2 Gas/oil
Mains gas supply is connected, with a meter located in a cupboard in the communal hallway. In view of the guidance above and as a matter of safety, you should now arrange for the installation and all gas appliances to be inspected and tested by a Gas Safe engineer prior to exchange of contracts. Condition rating 3.
Utterly standard.3: G4 Heating
The property has a conventional gas fired central heating system with a boiler which feeds a series of radiators in the various rooms. There are defects to the heating system including a lack of ventilation to the boiler cupboard and the control knob to the boiler appears suspect. You should now arrange for a Gas Safe engineer to check and test the system prior to exchange of contracts. Condition rating 3.
Utterly standard.3: G5 Water Heating
Hot water is provided by the main heating boiler and is stored in a hot water storage cylinder. See our comments in sections G1 and G4 above. Condition rating 3.
Get specialist reports on those if you want. The surveyor's just saying that it's not been freshly installed, fully paperworked as being freshly installed - which you knew - and he's not a specialist electrician/gas fitter/plumber - which he isn't.
Sounds like you're after Mystic Meg, not a sparky/heating engineer...Showing us that gas is working doesn't mean there wouldn't be a dangerous leak after moving in, showing us that hot water coming doesn't mean boiler won't need to be replaced after moving in.
Why would it be anybody other than you?2. If NICEIC electrician and gas safe engineers attend to give quotations, who should pay for these (us or vendor)?
3. If the assessments and quotations reveal urgent work to be done, who should pay for this (us or vendor)?0 -
You can be that much of a long time lurker if you're asking these sorts of questions......anyway:
These comments are standard @rse covering caveats that virtually every survey contains. They're almost entirely unspecific to the property in question and have no bearing on the value. Even if the valuation didn't agree with the purchase price, it's not because of those points.
Most vendors will tell you to jog on, so the answer to your question of 'who pays'? is "You do. After you've paid the vendor the price you previously agreed to buy the property at".
Hope that clarifies - when faced with the price (or the knowledge that they'll foot the bill, whatever it is) often makes buyers reconsider the necessity of these sorts of additional inspections...0 -
I agree with the above that these are standard items and it's up to you to pay for further checks. However, if those checks then identify significant urgent works that need to be undertaken, that would then to me be reasonable to discuss with the vendor either them getting the work completed and signed off or lowering the purchase price accordingly.
That said, I'm currently buying a house where the boiler is of indeterminate age but definitely over 15 years old and the vendor has never had it serviced (has owned the place for 15 years). Under those circumstances, I requested they pay for a service and they did so - which turned out completely fine. We had also agreed with them not to pursue some other items that came up in the survey where we could have asked for more to be done, so there was a bit of trade-off.
So it is possible to get the vendor to pay for checks - depends how reasonable you make it sound!0 -
As stated, surveyors will do this to cover their backs. Having said that, we didn't get the electrics checked out before completing and noticed once we'd moved that the upstairs lights needing a total rewire due to having live 1920's wiring with nearly corroded lead. Had we found out earlier we wouldn't have pulled out, nor reduced our offer though.0
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Hi stiggy.
There are different sorts of first time buyers. Some might have done a fair bit of DIY and / or have a working knowledge of gas boilers, electrics etc. Others might not. I'm guessing you come in the latter category(?) I'm not a FTB but I too lack relevant knowledge of these things and therefore tend to have slight concerns about being gassed or electrocuted in a new property.
However, given the number of replies stating that this report didn't flag up any serious issues, I personally would be inclined to proceed with the purchase. What I might do is to get a gas engineer and electrician in to check out any points that nagged away at me. They might just check & provide a quote for free or it could cost you a couple of hundred quid. At least that way you could weigh up whether to reduce your offer a little or start budgeting for a bit of an upgrade down the line, after moving in.0 -
Who pays?
Since the waters are (for you) uncharted, what you need is a chart. You can get one, free, from your local library.
1: G1 Electricity
Mains electricity is connected. The meter was not located and is assumed to be within a communal hallway cupboard. The consumer unit is located in the bedroom.
There is a loose switch in the hot water cylinder cupboard and the system does not appear to have been professionally checked in recent years. The complete installation should now be checked by an appropriate specialist registered with either the NICEIC or similar approved body prior to exchange of contracts. Some repair work or upgrading is likely to be necessary. Condition rating 3.
If you decide you want an electrical report, you pay for an electrician.
2: G2 Gas/oil
Mains gas supply is connected, with a meter located in a cupboard in the communal hallway. In view of the guidance above and as a matter of safety, you should now arrange for the installation and all gas appliances to be inspected and tested by a Gas Safe engineer prior to exchange of contracts. Condition rating 3.
If you decide you want a gas report, you pay for a Gas Safe engineer.
3: G4 Heating
The property has a conventional gas fired central heating system with a boiler which feeds a series of radiators in the various rooms. There are defects to the heating system including a lack of ventilation to the boiler cupboard and the control knob to the boiler appears suspect. You should now arrange for a Gas Safe engineer to check and test the system prior to exchange of contracts. Condition rating 3.
If you decide you want a boiler report, you pay for a Gas Safe engineer.
3: G5 Water Heating
Hot water is provided by the main heating boiler and is stored in a hot water storage cylinder. See our comments in sections G1 and G4 above. Condition rating 3.
If you decide you want a boiler report, you pay for a Gas Safe engineer.
I contacted the EA expressing our concern that these 4 elements are integral to the property and have been flagged as a safety concern and we would like for them to be addressed prior to exchange and done to an appropriate level of quality. EA replied after talking to vendor stating that these things are just the surveyor covering their own back. Vendor has offered to let us come round and show that all these services are working but I am not a gas safe engineer or an electrician. Showing us that gas is working doesn't mean there wouldn't be a dangerous leak after moving in, showing us that hot water coming doesn't mean boiler won't need to be replaced after moving in.
If you are concerned the services might not work, go and test them (eg turn on a hot tap!)
If you are concerned there may be a sefety issue, pay an expert to test the services.
Why should the seller pay to test services he has been (presumably) using quite happily for some (many?) years?
What we would like to know:
1. How should we proceed with these advisories? as above
2. If NICEIC electrician and gas safe engineers attend to give quotations, who should pay for these (us or vendor)?You
3. If the assessments and quotations reveal urgent work to be done, who should pay for this (us or vendor)? Depends if the work is required
a) to bring it up to current standards (few properties are to current standatds), or
b) to address a genuine safety issue
If b), then also depends on the cost. But it's a matter for negotiation.
4. If a negotiation in agreed purchase price is required, at what stage should this be done? (now, or after quotations)?
Obviously you renegotaite the price now, NOT after finding out whether a genuine issue exists or how exensive that issue might be. Pick a figure out of the air (say, £6,256) and demand the seller reduce the price by that.
I feel that replacing boiler or rewiring electrics could cost upto £4000-5000, Which? If it is 'up to £4000' then it cannot cost £5000. If it may cost £5000, then it cannot be 'up to £4000'!
Your 'feeling' is totally irrational, irrelevant, and based on...... air.
we do not have this spare cash to spend iminently.
On one hand I feel that these issues will put off any other prospective buyer if we pull out,
Not sensible buyers.
and so it is in vendor's best interests to pay for these to be addressed,
:rotfl:
however I would not want them to use a cheap cowboy to reduce their costs since they won't be benefitting from these upgrades.
That's the first sensible thing you've written. Never get a seller to undertake repairs.
On the other hand, we already have a number of sunk costs (solicitor fees, search fees, survey) which we would stand to waste if the purchase did not go through.
Gosh! Really? I would never have guessed......
We've searched through many similar questions on this forum and others, however there seems to be no consensus regarding with whom the financial onus lies to address such issues. Furthermore, previous posters have been flagged structural issues rather than the service related ones flagged in our case.
You've not searched much. These issues come up several times every week on this forum.
Your help and advice would be greatly appreciated as we continue to navigate these (for us) uncharted waters.
eg:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Your-First-Home-Sell/dp/00919353770 -
We had our homebuyers report back this morning. What you have written could of been me writing it word for word. And I expected it to be honest. It is on every single survey!!! They aren't electricians/heating or water engineers.
Ours were all grade 3 as well. If that's all you have as a grade 3 I think you are on a winner!!!
So no, you shouldn't get any money off.0
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