NTK letter arrived later than 15days but how do I prove it?

lj_dean

Hello

Read lots of very useful info on this site and tried to pick up the most relevant information regrading parking tickets issued by Parking Eye.

This is where I am at.
Appealed the Parking Charge Notice to ParkingEye in writing on grounds

1. the NTK failed to meet obligations of Schedule 4 of POFA Act 2012. It arrived on my doormat on 17/6/16 but the notice was dated 10/6/16. I've kept the envelope but there appears to be no postage mark (if they even exist these days) as evidence of date it was posted.
2. The charge was disproportionate and not commercially justifiable. 6mins for £100.

Appeal was unsuccessful and now I plan to make a POPLA appeal.
My question is do I stand any chance on point 1 above without proof of the date the parking charge notice was posted or is it for ParkingEye to prove they did indeed post on 10/6? Or do I just pay the £60 and feel grumpy?

Thank you in advance.
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bod1467

Pay? PAY?!? Are you insane?

Check the NEWBIES FAQ (directions to find it in my sig below).

What was the date of the alleged offence?

Redx

the Beavis result last november negates point 2) , so no idea why you even brought it up

you appeal this on several legal grounds, to popla , like the hundreds of others who have posted on here before you

lj_dean

I brought point 2 up because it is in the standard template letter on the MSE page for appealing parking charges.
step_1_letter.docx

I also read a thread where you have to deconstruct the Beavis result as it may not apply.

bod1467

The MSE guide is woefully out of date ... the best info is here in the NEWBIES FAQ and by searching for recent (March 2016 or later) threads regarding POPLA.

Redx

the MSE templates are out of date and very poor

the NEWBIES sticky thread near the top of this forum has all the up to date information and due to the Beavis result 8 months ago NOT A GPEOL wont wash anyway so wont be in your popla appeal

lj_dean

I have read through the Newbies section and lots of threads but can't find anyone who has contested the date on which the PCN was posted. Do the POFA assume parking notices are posted on the same date as the notice is printed?

Date of alleged offence 29 the May
PCN dated 10th June (12 days later)
Received 17th June. (19 days later)

POFA para 9 states
(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

lj_dean

Wish I'd known about the forum before consuling the MSE website :-(

Quentin

lj_dean wrote: »

Wish I'd known about the forum before consuling the MSE website :-(

The "MSE" page is the "property" of MSE, and not endorsed in any way by the people (members) who have built up this sub forum

As you are learning that advice (ie from MSE) is not to be followed!

But advice from this MSE Forum can be followed (bearing in mind anyone can post so use common sense over any "advice" or pm you might get from any newcomer with a low post count)

lj_dean

Oh wait hang on!
9.6 says presumed to have been delivered on 2nd working day after the day on which it was posted.
10/6 was a Friday so POFA will assume PCN arrived Tues 14th June which is 16 days from the day after the alleged offence - am I right?

OK I may not have to proove posting date!

Redx

plenty of people have contested posting times at popla and in court

but as you said , the letter is deemed "received" 2 days later in legal circles

the incident day is day zero , the letter must arrive by day 15 , or be deemed to have been posted such that it arrives by day 15, which it seems yours may have been , but only if they have proof of postage on the day in question

so legally they have to have proof of posting , then it is deemed "delivered" 2 days later (not the date they produced the letter)

it tells you this in your copy/paste, that is is down to when it was posted , plus 2 days to arrive (it says nothing at all about the date the letter was written)

so yes it can be disputed as far as POFA compliance, but there are other legal arguments you will be using that may be stronger arguments, and you only need to win one legal point to win outright