Gemini Parking Solutions

paul1971paul

Hello
Iam new to this site and been prompted to post on here to see if i can gain some help.
Iam registered disabled and have my blue badge - i attended a hospital appointment appointment with my granddaughter and daughter in law - my granddaughter was attending the fracture clinic and she wanted me to come - my daughter in law drove as i dont really like driving anymore - went to park in the disabled section but i then realized i had forgot my blue badge so we went to park in normal section, the whole car park was full and we tried for 20 minutes before giving up and just had to park best we could in find, it was not blocking anyone or anything just found somewhere to park and chanced it.
Unfortunately when we came out we had a ticket from these people citing "issue reason 19 parking in a no parking area"
They have given my daughter in law 60 days to pay £60 or £25 within 14 days.

Should we just pay this or could we use one of the templates you kindly provide people with - i have looked in the message section you ask people to read first which i have done but sorry dont understand some of the actions.

This happened at Stepping Hill Hospital in Stockport Cheshire.

I look forward to any replies and advice.

Regards

WIlliam

Fruitcake

Appeal to Gemini using the BPA template in blue from the Sticky thread for NEWBIES section around day 22 by post (first class from a Post office obtaining a free proof of posting) or day 26 online. Do not appeal too early but don't miss the appeal deadline.

In parallel, complain to PALS and ask them to cancel the ticket, mentioning that one of the occupants was disabled and a blue badge holder.

Why would you ask us if you should pay a scammer? The only answer you will get here will be resounding NO!

PS

I don't believe there is such a thing as a disabled register.

paul1971paul

Hello Fruitcake
Thank you for the reply.
Is this company a "scam" or is the whole parking ticket on private land your reference to them ALL being scammers? Iam old and dont know these modern day laws sorry.

It gives us 14 days to pay the reduced charge or it goes up, our right to appeal does this not affect this and the charge will increase to the £60? sorry if iam not understanding this correct.

So i should appeal on line after approx 26 days form the ticket issue correct?

Thank you for your help.

Regards
William

Fruitcake

paul1971paul wrote: »

Hello Fruitcake
Thank you for the reply.
Is this company a "scam" or is the whole parking ticket on private land your reference to them ALL being scammers? Iam old and dont know these modern day laws sorry.

It gives us 14 days to pay the reduced charge or it goes up, our right to appeal does this not affect this and the charge will increase to the £60? sorry if iam not understanding this correct.

So i should appeal on line after approx 26 days form the ticket issue correct?

Thank you for your help.

Regards
William

The whole private parking industry is a scam.

Forget the 14 day bit. That is only for the gullible. You have the right to appeal, so do so. Nothing affects that right.

Yes, appeal around day 26-27 online if Gemini give that option. Just don't miss the 28 day appeal deadline.

The reason is that by appealing AS KEEPER as late as possible, the parking scumpany may forget to send a notice to keeper within the required POFA 2012 deadline. A non compliant Notice to Keeper (NTK) means a win for you at the PoPLA stage, but you must do the initial appeal first.

Copy and paste. Do not edit it. That way you won't inadvertently give a way the driver's details and thus won't inadvertently give away a valuable winning appeal point at PoPLA.

Coupon-mad

The entire industry is rotten. This is not about 'modern laws'. If you smell a rat, there probably is one, and with private parking tickets there is a plague of them in the Country at the moment, fed by idiot victims who just pay up.

But a registered keeper appellant can beat this. You should also search this forum for two words: 'Gemini Hospital' to find what others have posted this year in LOTS of similar Gemini cases and to read their second stage POPLA appeals, because you will need one, to win.

paul1971paul

Hello

This very interesting reading and you should all be commended for your efforts.
Why would hospitals use these companies if they have such a bad reputation?

So this is the template i copy and paste into an email body and send to Gemini on day 26/27 of the deadline. On the back of the ticket they provide a email address for appeals.
All i do is complete the date and add the ticket number.
Regards
William

Date


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Coupon-mad

Why would hospitals use these companies if they have such a bad reputation?

Because the Hospitals get the tariff money from the machines, and often share the 'spoils' of the fake fines. Even though Government policy says this sort of thing is unacceptable:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hospitals-still-allowing-private-parking-firms-to-prey-on-visitors-with-penalty-fines-10047797.html

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

All i do is complete the date and add the ticket number.

And your name and address (of course, not just an email address) if you are the registered keeper of the car. And in your case I would also scan or take photos of both sides of your Blue Badge and in fact use this (DO NOT name the driver herself):





Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Please note that we have complained to PALS to raise this appeal with the NHS Trust. I am disabled and have a blue badge - see attached. I attended a hospital appointment appointment with my granddaughter and daughter in law.

We went to park in the disabled section but I then realised I did not have my blue badge (a feature of my disability can be forgetfulness). So, mindful of following rules, we moved the car from those bays rather than breach the rules on a sign, even though I do qualify to use a disabled bay on private land anyway, and a reasonable adjustment under the Equality Act 2010 could have been made, I am now advised.

We went to park in normal section but the whole car park was full and we tried for 20 minutes before giving up and - so as not to miss the appointment, which costs the NHS money and would have distressed my granddaughter and ourselves - we had no choice but to park where there were no lines precluding parking and it was not blocking anyone. Due to my medical needs we had to park within a reasonably close distance of the Hospital clinic because I cannot walk too far.

My daughter in law drove as I don't really like driving anymore. I am the registered keeper of this vehicle so I am advised I can appeal in that capacity. There will be no admissions as to who was driving, no name/address of the driver needs to be supplied to you as a private company. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

(NAME AND ADDRESS OF REGISTERED KEEPER)

paul1971paul

Thank you - these are greedy people and the hospitals are as bad as they seem to be allowing these "cheats" to carry on with them all getting a gain of the spoils.

Thank you for your advice but it was actually my daughter in laws car we travelled in, she is the registered keeper of the vehicle not myself.
Please can you help me amend your suggestion.

Regards
William

Coupon-mad

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Please note that we have complained to PALS to raise this appeal with the NHS Trust. One of the occupants of the car that day is disabled and has a Council Blue Badge (see attached, even though this scheme does not apply on private land and is not the only indicator of need).

Our family attended a hospital appointment appointment and we went to park in the disabled section but then the Badge holder realised he did not have his blue badge (a feature of his disability can be forgetfulness). Unquestioningly following your 'rules', we moved the car away from those bays without parking. However, we have now researched this and realise that, in fact, we could have parked there because it is the Equality Act 2010 (EA) which applies, not the Blue Badge scheme, despite your restrictive choice of wording on the only sign.

We saw nothing that informed us that we could in fact have parked there at the disabled bays without a Badge, for example by collecting a temporary pass from reception which would be the sort of 'reasonable adjustment' that the NHS should be ready to make, in order to comply with the EA and fairly meet the needs of disabled visitors who do NOT have a Badge with them.

In our case, as no such offer was made and the disabled bays were wrongly denied us by signage, we had no choice but to park where there were no lines precluding parking. Due to the disabled family member's medical needs, we had to park within a reasonably close distance of the Hospital clinic because he cannot walk too far.

A person who meets the definition of disability is entitled to use concessions that meet their needs and to be allowed a 'reasonable adjustment'. So we believe that a reasonable adjustment to cancel the PCN should be the remedy now, to resolve this dispute. Service providers cannot without solid justification, ignore the EA and effectively offer disabled consumers a service that treats them less favourably, depending on whether they have remembered to bring an irrelevant council 'Blue Badge' as proof of disability. Whilst many genuinely long-term disabled people will have a Badge with them, some will not have one at all - and some will have forgotten to bring it - but it does not suddenly mean their needs as a person with 'protected characteristics' do not have to be met by the NHS Trust.

I am the registered keeper of this vehicle so I am advised I can appeal in that capacity. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or send me a POPLA code to appeal further, as keeper. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and although we are happy to provide the Blue Badge in good faith as 'evidence of need' to park close to the fracture clinic, no name/address of the driver needs to be supplied to you as a private company.

I look forward to your reply and also await an update from PALS, who we have contacted in order to raise this issue with the NHS Trust. I believe that the Hospital must be well aware of their legal duty under the EA and will know that the Blue Badge scheme (nor any other scheme to attempt to identify disabled people) cannot be used to create a 'blanket ban' on other disabled people being offered the chance to park close to a building. Under the EA, adjustments must be made and any applicable concessions offered anyway - no caveats apply - so we ask that the PCN is cancelled under the circumstances.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal.

Yours faithfully,

(NAME AND ADDRESS OF REGISTERED KEEPER)

paul1971paul

Excellent and thank you.

Regards
William

paul1971paul

Hello
I have just had this reply - please could you advise what is the next step i need to make now.
Thank you
William

Dear Motorist,
Parking Charge Number:
Vehicle Registration:
Location: Stepping Hill Hospital, Poplar Grove, Hazel Grove, Stockport.
Date PCN Issued:
Contravention: “Parking in No Parking Area”
Additional Contravention:
POPLA Verification Code:
A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued to vehicle registration on the at the
location Stepping Hill Hospital, Poplar Grove, Hazel Grove, Stockport. for the contravention
“Parking in No Parking Area”
It stipulates within the signage that motorists must abide by the parking regulations and park within a
marked parking bay. The motorist failed to park in an authorised parking area and ignored the
signage throughout the car park indicating this. Do not feel that you were singled out for our attention;
the Parking Charge Notices are given out by our operatives on an unbiased basis.
We have noted your comments and understand that you were struggling to find a parking bay and
forgot to bring your blue badge with you, however, the area in which your vehicle was parked is a
strictly no parking area. As stated on the signage, vehicles must be parked within a designated
marked bay. Unfortunately we are unable to take your mitigating circumstances into account. It is the
motorist’s responsibility to be aware and comply with site regulations at all times.
The motorist failed to comply with the site conditions therefore a parking charge notice was issued
correctly. You were parked outside of the set terms and conditions of the site and as a result your
appeal was unsuccessful as your representations did not make sufficient grounds.
We are hired by the land owners to ensure all motorists who enter their land abide by their terms and
conditions which are stated on the signage throughout the car park.
Gemini Parking Solutions fully complies with the guidelines set by that of the British Parking
Association who are the regulating body for the parking industry. We ensure that photographic
evidence is taken with every PCN that is issued in case of disputes.
The payment for £60 is now due as you have exceeded the 14 day period. Failure to pay the amount
will result in further costs being incurred and may also result in Gemini Parking Solutions Ltd
Instructing a Debt Collection agency to collect any sum due.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. Should you wish to make a second
appeal, this can be made to POPLA that provides an independent appeals
service. All representations to POPLA will need to be received within 28 days from the date of this
letter. Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA and should POPLA’s decision not go in your
favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £60.00. By law we are also required to inform you
that Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute
resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen
to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then
you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.’
Yours faithfully,
Appeals Centre