Break clause during 6 mth AST - question

Miss_Samantha

CDESPO wrote: »

@G_M: Yes there is a landlord's address in the Tenancy agreement on the front page - but not one in the section on serving of notice. That's the address we've been using for communications.

It's OK, then.

CDESPO

UPDATE:

Sent a final email chaser to the landlord as it is the last day of the 10 day period I have given them to respond. Got a response saying that they dont hold the deposit and the agent deals with this matter. They will be sending details of deductions for my consideration to the agent today so therefore they are in compliance with the 10 day notification period.


So basically they are refusing to communicate the deductions to me or ensure payment of the deposit back to me. I have reminded them that under mydeposits they are responsible even if they instructed an agent to protect it on their behalf but they are being belligerent.

UPDATE 2:

Have now received, via the agent, what amounts to a schedule of deductions ( a list in an email with no details).

The list is - as expected - a ridiculous list totalling £1500+. I also now have a copy of the check out inventory which bizarrely has no basis for the claims they have made and totally supports our view that we left the house in exceptionally good condition

Is the next step to raise the single party dispute to mydeposits, or am I expected to go through a loop of trying to negotiate on the deductions with them stating my evidence (of which I have tonnes) that prove I am not liable for them.

CDESPO

OK so now I definitely need a bit of a steer/help with the N208 form

So I have gone round a loop of responding to the deductions where i set out my negotiating position - with evidence - against each deduction point. Essentially saying I would pay for the inventory check out as it was in the agreement but that I dont admit responsibility for the other deductions - with evidence (happy to expand on these if people are interested).

I've asked for a formal response to my rebuttal evidence and said any points that they are unwilling to accept the evidence will need to be addressed through the arbitration.

They are adopting a strange tactic of responding to me saying "We are willing to negotiate but as you are unwilling to we have no choice but to go to arbitration" - whilst refusing to respond to the points I raised/evidence I sent them. Clearly trying to create a paper trail where they can claim they tried to negotiate but I was unwilling - even though they are doing it in response to my offer to revise the deductions prior to arbitration...

So the dispute process step I now get. However with the court process - the N208 form is 2 pages. I am going to need a LOT of space to give the full history to the claim and explanation of my position of deductions. Can you put an appendix of supporting information and if so do you have to put a signed statement of truth just at the end of the written appendix?

Also is it best to keep the main claim details as short as possible, stick to the facts and key dates and then put a an indexed appendix to accompany it with all the details?

Sorry one final point - is there anything preventing me from doing the MyDeposits ADR in parallel to the small claims court compensation route

G_M

Re the deposit deductions. You can contest them either via the scheme arbitration process, or via the courts. The courts somtimes take a dim view if you ignore arbitration. However....

Re the penalty for non compliance. This must go via the courts. Since you are going to court anyway, simpler to contest the deductions at the same time.

Send a 'Letter Before Action' making clear that you will start court proceedings in 10 days for both the return of your deposit, and the penalty.

If the LL/agent has any sense, he'll offer to return your deposit in full if you call it quits. If he doesn't, go to court.

You can attach extra pages to the forms. Make it clear
a) on in the relevant section of the form, that there is an additional page, and
b) on the extra page, which section of the form it relates to.

You can also ask court officials for guidance on the process of completing the forms, but they cannot give you legal advice, or advise you on wording.

Miss_Samantha

There is no need for pages of details for a deposit claim.

A claim for the return of the deposit should also be kept short as it is really for the landlord to prove his case.

CDESPO

I understand the need for the brevity but the landlord has come with such a ridiculous list of claims that it needs a lot of explanation to clarify why there is no basis for it

For reference what I am compiling as supporting docs for the court claim:

- Original and renewal tenancy agreements
- Information relating to deposit protections (certificate, enquiries to MyDeposit, invoice for original payment)
- Evidence of notice served (letters to landlord, email correspondence, legal advice on disputed break clause)
- Check in/out inventories
- Then support on each of the deposit deductions including photos, email communications, independent opinions

CDESPO

Thanks for the help with this by the way. A couple of further questions that seem to have conflicting guidance on line.

When you file the Letter Before Action are you required to provide a copy of the N208 form along with it. Or do you send the Letter Before Action - give them 14 days to respond and if not file the N208 form to start the claims process

Also - I am seeing conflicting evidence that the N1 Part 7 procedure might be the claim route rather than N208 Part 8 procedure. Do you know what the difference would be?

CDESPO

Sorry to continually bombard this thread with questions but I have an update now that could really do with some input on.

So I have now sent the LBA requesting the compensation for the failure to meet the obligations relating to deposit protection using the standard wording of the Shelter template - adjusted for the specifics. I challenged them on three points:

- That they failed to register the deposit within 30 days at the start of the original tenancy
- That they failed to provide the Prescribed Information when they renewed the tenancy 12 mths later under new terms and new rental amount
- That they have failed to return the full deposit despite providing evidence refuting the deductions

They have responded with a letter stating that they were not responsible for registering the deposit (the agent was) and therefore any action we feel appropriate should be directed at the agents.

Ive also go the agents claiming that if I was to launch a claim it would have to be against them as it was their mistake. My understanding of the deposit protection rules are that it is on the landlord irrespective of whether the agent took the money and forgot to protect it.

I'm still torn as to whether I should be placing the claim through mydeposits and frankly - if they were not claiming money from the deposit on the basis that they refused to accept the notice clause - I would. My concern is that myDeposits will either not be able to arbitrate on that point, or will incorrectly arbitrate on that point (where a claims judge would not).

Also am I correct in starting the claim against the landlord rather than the agent (if I go down that route)

Pixie5740

I think you can start a claim against both the LL and LA. However, you are correct in that the LL is ultimately responsible for protecting your deposit and issuing the PI. If you sued the LL then the LL could in turn sue the LA if he so chose.

always_sunny

CDESPO wrote: »

They have responded with a letter stating that they were not responsible for registering the deposit (the agent was) and therefore any action we feel appropriate should be directed at the agents.

Ive also go the agents claiming that if I was to launch a claim it would have to be against them as it was their mistake. My understanding of the deposit protection rules are that it is on the landlord irrespective of whether the agent took the money and forgot to protect it.

I'm still torn as to whether I should be placing the claim through mydeposits and frankly - if they were not claiming money from the deposit on the basis that they refused to accept the notice clause - I would. My concern is that myDeposits will either not be able to arbitrate on that point, or will incorrectly arbitrate on that point (where a claims judge would not).

Also am I correct in starting the claim against the landlord rather than the agent (if I go down that route)

Who's the other party on your AST? The LL or the LA?
If the LL name and signature is on it, then they are responsible for the deposit, whether or not they commission someone else to do it, it's irrelevant to you.

Also, you would have paid the deposit where you were instructed to by the LA. Would you have been given the keys if you hadn't paid the deposit? Doubt it.