share of freehold - maintenance/repair query?

zenweb15

Hi guys,

It's my first post on here so go easy on me!
I own a top floor flat with a share of the freehold. There is one other flat on the ground floor.
Ground floor have said they want the outside painted and as it's share of freehold we go 50/50?
I have seen online it actually says the lease says who is responsible for what and who owns what. They would like me to pay 50/50 to fix their garden wall but the garden is souly theres.

I have checked my lease where it mentions the demised premises and it reads as follows.

Could anyone 'in the know' tell me if i am right in thinking the roof/loft space and roof structure is souly mine? If it is i'd rather save up for fascias.

Lease:

Shown in red on the plan the demised premises shall (for the purpose of obligation as well as grant) include:-

A) one half part in depth of the structure between the floor and ceiling of the demised premises and the ceiling or the floor of the other flat as the case may be and
one half part in width of all the internal walls of the demised premises shared with the other flat or adjoining premises.
C) the whole both internally and externally and including all windows and glass therein of these parts of the wall of the demised premises which at the date hereof do not adjoin any other building or premises and
D) the whole of the structure affording support to the demised premises including the whole of the structure the ceilings the roof internally and externally including all chimneys and external pipes drains gutters and other within the demised premises which may serve jointly the demised premises and the other flat.


Does this mean the roof space and roof structure are mine??

Confused! Have queried with solicitor today but wont hear back until middle of next week!

Please help! :rotfl:

dc197

Sharing the cost of painting g a wall will grease the wheels if you ever need to adk for a share of fixing the roof etc.

zenweb15

But if the lease is correct then legally the roof is mine by obligation and grant? The only person I could ask for costs to fix it is myself? I'm sure someone will shed light on the demised premises schedule within the lease above

G_M

You have misunderstood.

The quote you provide defines the area (demised premises) that is yours to live in.

It does not define what you are responsible for paying for. This will be specified elsewhere in the lease.

read it in full.

It may say repair of the upper part of the building is your responsibility and repair of the lower part is the other leaseholder's responsibility.

It may say ALL repairs are shared 50/50.

It may say something totally diferent again.

zenweb15

Thankyou G_M

AlexMac

That final clause, read out of context, is confusing...

but, in my experience, my past leases have all assumed cost sharing (either 50-50 or to a formula defined in the lease based on pro rata size/floorspace or rateable value etc ) of maintaining or repalcing roof, externals such as walls, windows, woodwork, roofs and gutters , rising or penetrating damp, communal electrics, landscapes, parking or roads, etc...
Each of the five leasehold flats I've owned (mostly "shared freehold", but in one case, where I owned the whole freehold of a Victorian semi with a long leasehold owner in the flat below) have had the arrangement where the roof and loft was notionally communally owned; even if only accessible for the top flat.

So if the roof blew off we all shared the pain; not just the top flat. And if there were leaky gutters and penetrating or rising damp, we all shared it; not just the basement flat...

but as GM sez - what does your lease say. And as someone else sez- be nice ... it could pay dividends long term

zenweb15

Ive had a long old read of the lease, the only part that makes reference to painting the exterior says that i should ensure that the demised premises is painted every three years in two coats of good quality paint. It doesn't make reference to a 50/50 share of costs or mention (the other flat)

There is reference to a 50/50 share of costs with 'the other flat' for the repair to all of the structure providing support up to the demised premises (with the inclusion of foundations and damp proof course if present) and any guttering or conduits that are shared with the demised premises.

So this still makes no sense to me :j

bouicca21

I have a similar clause about painting my flat but it refers to the interior - painting the exterior is the freeholder's responsibility.

I think the implication of your lease is that maintenance works are shared 50/50. Cough up.

gwynlas

50/50 or do you want your flat devalued by appearance of broken wall.They in turn pay towards new soffits,

zenweb15

Hi guys, a quick update for you all.

I got the letter this morning from the solicitor with the lease all covered in yellow highlighter and post it notes all over it in reference to all my queries.

In short, I am responsible for painting the exterior of my flat
And downstairs are responsible for painting the exterior of their flat.

There is no 50/50 share for the cost of this, however there is a section saying that each property must every 3 years paint the exterior of their demised property and any communal spaces see a 'fair proportion' being paid by the other party. [there is no communal areas] baffled!

This would also explain why downstairs is a different colour externally to mine.

Also It was noted that I am responsible for windows to my flat.
And downstairs are responsible for theirs. (which would explain why i have double glazing and they don't)

It's also however been pointed out to me that i am souly responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of the roof.. whilst downstairs are souly responsible for the gardens, garden walls foundations and DPC. (this is annoying as i paid 50% with them the week after I moved in because they started works after i completed the sale and demanded the money)

I have spoken to downstairs and they are adamant that everything is 50/50 share of costs because that's what a shared freehold is. I told them to check their lease and they have said there is no lease for a shared freehold property. If this is the case then I need to find out how the solicitor referenced their lease in his letter if one does not exist?

I will phone the solicitor on Monday to see if he will also be willing to send me a copy of their lease with the same highlighted areas and post it notes for them.

Thanks for all of your help guys, these leases seem to be worded in such a way that actually working out what they mean needs the pros!

G_M

Seems clear:

zenweb15 wrote: »

..... says that i should ensure that the demised premises is painted every three years in two coats of good quality paint.
well you know what 'the demised premises' is, because that was in your post 1 above. So you need to paint that. And downstairs need to paint their 'demised premises'
It doesn't make reference to a 50/50 share of costs or mention (the other flat). So you each paint your own part of the building.

There is reference to a 50/50 share of costs with 'the other flat' for the repair to all of the structure providing support up to the demised premises (with the inclusion of foundations and damp proof course if present) and any guttering or conduits that are shared with the demised premises.
So you share costs for the structure.

However I'm surprised by "up to the demised premises" which suggests repairs to the lower part of the building are 50/50, but not the upper part. But then it includes 'guttering' (but not roofing). Strange.

Can you quote the wording exactly and in full?

So this still makes no sense to me :j

So far as painting is concerned, it's clear.