Premium SMS Fraud

Castle

chaupt wrote: »

Thanks Castle, at the moment they do seemed to have passed my details between companies, do you know if my number in isolation constitutes personal information? (That is they have no other details about me )



Incidentally I called Xinion on the number EE gave me 0333 202 6452 and asked where and when they got my number. They claim that a form was filled in yesterday afternoon, when I pointed out they had sent me a message before then the man hung up on me.

1) If they know your name then it's now personal data.

2) Furthermore, sending you a text message without consent is a breach of regulation 22 of the PECR2003 and if they fail to provide their name in the text, then that's also a breach of regulation 23 of the PECR2003.

Jimbo0103

Hi Everyone,

I hope someone will have the answer to my question. On Thursday for 24 hours I received 17 of these text messages to my Pay as you go mobile. They were either...

Message 1 from 88311 - Free Message: Reply WIN to 88311 to complete your entry to win the new iPad. Please ignore if not requested

Message 2 from 82288 - Reply SHOP to 82288 to confirm your entry to the Shopping Voucher Prize Draw. Please ignore if not requested.

Message 3 from 82288 - Free Message: Reply WOW to 88311 to complete your entry to win the new iPad. Please ignore if not requested

They came in quick succession and sometimes I had three of the same message in 9 seconds. As I am on pay as you go and the balance was under £1 I had no money taken. and I have followed Virgin Media's advice about texting STOP and phoning the two companies in question to asking them to stop sending them to me via a number given to me by Virgin Media, which they say has been done. However my question to three different people at the call centre has been less than helpful. I asked if I top up will some/all of it be sent to pay for theses text messages I did not ask for and which were sent before I asked them to stop. I have been told by three different members of staff... maybe, possibly and I do not know, which is annoying because this can not be the first time the question has been asked

The call centre staff have made it clear that this is not Virgin Media's problem and any charges need to be taken up with the firm sending out the text messages. If I am to be charged for each of the 17 messages it comes to quite a large total. The phone is old and is not Android and internet has never been used on it. Like the original poster I am very careful about who has my number. In fact only a few people actually know it

Does anyone know if I top up will the money be taken?

I asked the companies in question where they got my number and they said they have no idea and neither do I

Thanks

Jimbo

chaupt

Jimbo0103 wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

I hope someone will have the answer to my question. On Thursday for 24 hours I received 17 of these text messages to my Pay as you go mobile. They were either...

Message 1 from 88311 - Free Message: Reply WIN to 88311 to complete your entry to win the new iPad. Please ignore if not requested

Message 2 from 82288 - Reply SHOP to 82288 to confirm your entry to the Shopping Voucher Prize Draw. Please ignore if not requested.

Message 3 from 82288 - Free Message: Reply WOW to 88311 to complete your entry to win the new iPad. Please ignore if not requested

They came in quick succession and sometimes I had three of the same message in 9 seconds. As I am on pay as you go and the balance was under £1 I had no money taken. and I have followed Virgin Media's advice about texting STOP and phoning the two companies in question to asking them to stop sending them to me via a number given to me by Virgin Media, which they say has been done. However my question to three different people at the call centre has been less than helpful. I asked if I top up will some/all of it be sent to pay for theses text messages I did not ask for and which were sent before I asked them to stop. I have been told by three different members of staff... maybe, possibly and I do not know, which is annoying because this can not be the first time the question has been asked

The call centre staff have made it clear that this is not Virgin Media's problem and any charges need to be taken up with the firm sending out the text messages. If I am to be charged for each of the 17 messages it comes to quite a large total. The phone is old and is not Android and internet has never been used on it. Like the original poster I am very careful about who has my number. In fact only a few people actually know it

Does anyone know if I top up will the money be taken?

I asked the companies in question where they got my number and they said they have no idea and neither do I

Thanks

Jimbo

Hi Jimbo,

It is possible but not probable that you have been charged. It is probably not a large amount of money and you could end up spending several hours on the phone and internet resolving this. This is not an accident, the industry relies on it being difficult and time consuming for you to stop this or get your money back.

Virgin Media hold your account and are responsible for telling you what you balance is, what other charges not yet applied they are aware of, and how long it could take for any charges not yet showing to appear. If the call advisor on the phone will not give you definitive answers then raise a formal complaint and get a complaint number from them. You then need to follow the Virgin Media complaint process to the end, stay focused on getting the answers you need rather than what they may want to talk about. If you do not have the answers when you complete the complaint process then contact Ofcom, cite the complaint number in your report to Ofcom. If you really want to escalate things then you can break each question into a separate call/inquiry meaning you can then raise each one that is not answered as a separate complaint. It does not hurt to write a brief email to your MP regarding the situation using the They Work for Us site. Virgin Media should also be able to put a block on your phone preventing most (but no guarantee) spam and premium SMS messages. Ensure that you ask them for this and for them to confirm it has been done. It is worth noting when this commitment was made should any future messages arrive you can raise hell about it and seek some form of goodwill payment from the operator.

The Mobile Operators will try to act like your friend and as much a victim as you, this is not the case. They control their own network and the traffic on it. They could prevent those messages being delivered to you if they chose to. They make an admin fee on each premium message and lot of money from facilitating this process. It is in their interests for this industry to continue to operate and will not do any more than they are legally required to prevent this. It also means that they will do as little as possible to help you while claiming to be victims themselves. That said, handling calls is an expensive business and every minute you spend on the phone to them regarding this eats into their profits from facilitating this fraud and harassment, so please feel free to keep checking in with them all the time.

Like me, it looks like your are dealing with two companies run by the same people. They are responsible for telling you 1) How they got your number and 2) What charges they have made to your account. They will probably tell you that your number was entered into a competition. This is not something that can be verified and it could be a randomly generated number.

You could also contact PhonepayPlus, (push 2, 1, 1, on their menu system to speak to an agent) they will be very reluctant to allow you to open a case. I now have two cases open but had to escalate it to a manager on both occasions, threaten to write to my MP in one case and start the process of Subject Access Request in the other. They seem to have a strong incentive to not have new cases opened. I take this as meaning I should work hard to open a case. As you are dealing with two different companies you should insist on raising a different case for each company. When a case is raised you should get a case number and this should be followed by an email from them with the case number in it. I had to chase for the email in both instances. I then sent a reply to the email setting out all the information I had. PhonepayPlus were also able to check and tell me what they believed should have been charged to my number and could act to confirm what the originator of the message is telling you.

If you have been charged for these messages and they were sent to you fraudulently then PhonePayPlus should guide you through the process of getting your money back. They are not responsible for getting you, you money back but my understanding is that you can use their investigation to get the operator to refund you. I am still waiting to hear back from them so cannot say what happens next

You can also involve the ICO for two reasons, firstly they are interested in any spam texts regardless of there being a charge or not and ask you to report them, this is a fairly painless online form. Secondly as these are legally two different companies then it looks like they are sharing lists of phone numbers between them. This may not be legal and is worth mentioning when you report this to the ICO.

If you find you have been charged then it is worth reporting it to ActionFraud. PhonepayPlus suggested this while trying to avoid opening a case but after spending about 5 hours on the phone to my operator they agreed to refund me over 10* the amount of the initial charges as a goodwill gesture so I am not out of pocket, I am also still waiting to hear from PhonepayPlusas to where the charges originated (Operator Admin Fee or from the SMS originator).

If you have not already, it is worth registering your mobile phone with the Telephone Preference Service. Do to the rather pathetic regulation and regulators this will not stop fraud or spam messages but does make your case much stronger when you are fighting to register a complaint.

Finally Which? are gathering information on Spam Texts and provide assistance on stopping them. It would not hurt to report this to them.

Good Luck

Jimbo0103

Hi chaupt,

thanks for the detailed reply.

I have spoken again to Virgin Media and the people who sent the 17 text messages in 30 hours.

The person at Virgin Media again had no Idea if I top up my Pay as You go phone the money will be taken for the text messages. They advised me to top up £5 and if the money is taken I need to claim it back from the people who sent the text. They also said I may need to claim 17 times if the take the money every time I top up by £5.

I also called the two companies again and the first one says no money will be taken and they got my number from a competition for an Xbox. But he said the form was not filled in fully so that was why a got a "Free Message" text with no charge. I asked if that was the same for the second company and was told I had to phone them even though they are based at the same place.He had no answer to my question about the same message being sent three times in 9 seconds on Thursday.

The second company again said I would not be charged for the "Free Message" and they got my number from a competition for a Tablet and maybe I clicked on a "pop up" message on my phone. This is strange as it is a very old phone its not android and internet has never been used.

They both said I would not be charged and the only way to find out is to top up and see if they take the money. I do not trust what they say and I hope I do not have to follow Virgin Media's advice about making 17 claims if they take £4-50 every time I top up by £5.

Jimbo0103

Despite being told on Friday and again this morning that no more messages will be sent, I have just been sent another text from 88311.

So I will be back on the phone tomorrow morning

chaupt

[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial] Dear [FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial]XX,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I am writing to inform you that the service you contacted us about, operating on shortcode 82288 [FONT=&quot]has previously been assessed and is not currently under investigation.
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]As part of our ongoing work, we are continually reviewing consumer contacts in regard to this service, as well as using our own evidence gathering, monitoring, and intelligence resources where necessary. If new information does come to light, or should the service be subject to further assessment, we may consider this decision, however, given the evidence we currently hold, we are not able to take action at this time.


[FONT=&quot]Whilst we are not able to take the case regarding this service further in this instance, you can discuss the details of the charges you have incurred, and the possibility of obtaining a refund, using the details below. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Provider Details:
[/FONT]
Xinion Limited
[FONT=&quot]03332020481
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][EMAIL="managercontact@customercaredepot.co.uk"]managercontact@customercaredepot.co.uk[/EMAIL][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
If you have any further questions or can provide further information to support an assessment of this service, please contact our helpline on 0300 30 300 20 between 9.30am and 5pm Monday to Friday. Please ensure you have your case reference number to hand before calling.[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT]
Kind Regards,

Eric Gyapong
Contact Assessment Officer


*Please note this email address is not monitored. Emails sent to this address will not receive a response*

[/FONT]

chaupt

chaupt wrote: »

[FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial] Dear [FONT=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial]XX,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I am writing to inform you that the service you contacted us about, operating on shortcode 82288 [FONT=&quot]has previously been assessed and is not currently under investigation.
[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]As part of our ongoing work, we are continually reviewing consumer contacts in regard to this service, as well as using our own evidence gathering, monitoring, and intelligence resources where necessary. If new information does come to light, or should the service be subject to further assessment, we may consider this decision, however, given the evidence we currently hold, we are not able to take action at this time.


[FONT=&quot]Whilst we are not able to take the case regarding this service further in this instance, you can discuss the details of the charges you have incurred, and the possibility of obtaining a refund, using the details below. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Provider Details:
[/FONT]
Xinion Limited
[FONT=&quot]03332020481
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][EMAIL="managercontact@customercaredepot.co.uk"]managercontact@customercaredepot.co.uk[/EMAIL][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
If you have any further questions or can provide further information to support an assessment of this service, please contact our helpline on 0300 30 300 20 between 9.30am and 5pm Monday to Friday. Please ensure you have your case reference number to hand before calling.[/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT]
Kind Regards,

EricGyapong
Contact Assessment Officer


*Please note this email address is not monitored. Emails sent to this address will not receive a response*

[/FONT]

Jimbo0103,

I am hoping you will now report them to PhonepayPlus on two grounds, the first being that they have agreed not to contact you and yet sent more messages and the second being that the strange coincidence that two companies both run by the same people got your details at the same time. PhonepayPlus did commit to contact Xinion on my behalf (once I forced them to open a case) and the messages have stopped for the moment.

That said, as you can see above PhonePayPlus have done nothing whatsoever with the evidence I have provided so I will now need to chase them to get details on the process and decision making used to arrive at this point. More time wasted on the phone

Jimbo0103

I phoned the company again today and was told even though I sent STOP and asked them to not send any more text messages, I will keep getting them if somebody puts my number in another competition. This I can not believe and I did ring again and a different person said the same.

Does anyone know if it is true?

Virgin Media were helpful today and gave me free text messages and free minutes. He was going to ring the two companies and then put their reply on my account. However it was 8-30am and they do not open till 9am and he was at the end of his shift. The lady I spoke to at 9-15am said "no no no" we do not do that as its between me and the people sending the messages.

The free messages and texts are great and I am thankful. But it does mean I still do not know if they will take any money when I top up for messages sent before I sent stop.

They gave me an email address for the manager

helpmanager@careformobile.com

chaupt

Jimbo0103 wrote: »

I phoned the company again today and was told even though I sent STOP and asked them to not send any more text messages, I will keep getting them if somebody puts my number in another competition. This I can not believe and I did ring again and a different person said the same.

Does anyone know if it is true?

Virgin Media were helpful today and gave me free text messages and free minutes. He was going to ring the two companies and then put their reply on my account. However it was 8-30am and they do not open till 9am and he was at the end of his shift. The lady I spoke to at 9-15am said "no no no" we do not do that as its between me and the people sending the messages.

The free messages and texts are great and I am thankful. But it does mean I still do not know if they will take any money when I top up for messages sent before I sent stop.

They gave me an email address for the manager

[EMAIL="helpmanager@careformobile.com"]helpmanager@careformobile.com[/EMAIL]

Hi Jimbo0103,

Remembering that both the company that sent you spam and Virgin make money out of spam texts neither of them are going to do more than they are legally obliged to unless it becomes too costly for them.

It is correct that the originator of the spam have no legal obligation to not send you spam in the future should someone 'accidentally' or fraudulently give them your number. Given how toothless the regulator (PhonepayPlus) of premium text messages are even when your phone number has been fraudulently used (see the response I got from PhonepayPlus above) there is no reason for them to change this, unless we can get a decent regulator or law in place.

Virgin should be able to block most if not all short code messages but you will probably need to push them very hard on this and ensure that you record when they commit to do this. EE told me that they could not (read, have no legal obligation) stop short codes that were already sending me messages, for this I had to contact the company sending the Spam and/or the regulator (PhonepayPlus) call them on 0300 30 300 20 (Monday - Friday, 9.30am - 5pm, excluding bank holidays) and then press 2, 1, 1 to in their system to talk to a person. EE did agree to block any new short codes being allowed to send me spam but, could not guarantee it would not happen again. I will certainly push them hard for a goodwill payment if I get anything from a new number goodwill payment or not.

As for the outstanding amounts I point to my original response about getting each party to take clear responsibility for their part in confirming what if anything you are going to be charged.

Jimbo0103

I spoke to PhonepayPlus who could not have been more unhelpful. Because I have not been charged yet they are not interested in offering any help. They said if I am charged when I top up I can contact them and they will help me. However after seeing the reply sent above I do not think they will help me at all.

Virgin Media claim they cannot block shot code messages.