ESA moved from support group to WRAG

Alice_Holt

Daisychains wrote: »

So I've decided to do an MR. I have typed up 4 pages and included the 3 sets of support descriptors that I feel apply to me.

Don't be too upset if the DWP don't change their decision at the MR stage.

The next stage of the appeal to the tribunal service (TS) is more likely the stage at which the correct decision will be made. You will be able to explain in person to the tribunal members how your condition affects you, (and they will listen to you).
The TS can conduct a hearing over the phone in some circumstances.
However, you will get about 2 weeks notice of the hearing date & time (it will be local), so your friend should hopefully have sufficient notice to attend with you.

Are you aware of this site?
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-appeals

CAB public info here:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/while-youre-getting-esa/challenging-an-esa-decision/

Bananas123

now you just sit back and wait and see if the MR person is an idiot or not,

fingers crossed they reconsider you right into the support group!

but if not, again don't get down; you have already jumped 2/3 hurdles (well done) < AND ...it's still not your problem,

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this bit is just like the assessment phase over again....

waiting waiting..

good luck

Daisychains

Hi,

Thank you for your help. Do you guys know if the MR goes to the same or a different decision maker as before??

I have typed up my MR and it has come to 4 pages. This is with information on my daily life and how my problems effect my thoughts and self harm.

I've also included another 4 pages from a close family member who has detailed info about wgat it's like living with me and how severe my issues are.

I have mentioned in my MR that my interview was only 20 minutes long at the most and have said I will appeal o have a re-assessment if needed.

I will be posting the info on Monday and have also got a copy for a family member to drop in to the job centre with a cover note for my adviser to inform them of the MR and asking if they could contact me to let me know if I stil have to attend the WFI/if so if I can have a home visit.

Is this okay? It's 8 pages long so in worried the adviser will get annoyed or think it's not their job to read it - should I just send it to the DWP and bot my adviser too??

Thank you xx

KxMx

Good luck with your appeal

It will be a different decision maker.

Nothing wrong with it being 8 pages if that's how long it's turned out.

Home visit WFIs are not done but they may be happy to do it over the phone instead of in person.

I'd personally just do a letter to advisor telling them you are appealing, outlining the reasons why the decision was wrong. It is up to you though.

Detroit

What would be really useful to send with your MR request is supporting evidence from your health care professionals.
Make sure the information you have written about your condition links to the support group descriptors.
Explain what you can't do, why you can't do it, and examples of what would be the outcome if you tried, ideally using examples from past experience.
I would strongly recommend you ask CAB for help with the MR if you can manage this within the deadline. Almost all CABx have experienced welfare benefits workers who complete these every day and know how to present and evidence your case.

Bananas123

hello again,

i think (not 100%)>

the esa50 (WCQ) goes to the dwp > they send or compile it to atos / the assessors who see you > they send their assesment info (how many points they think you should have) back to the dwp, and then the DWP sends you a letter detailing "your points" etc

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MR:

the "desicion maker" works for the DWP and does the "reconsideration" (looking at your ESA50 AND what atos has said ("your points") and looks to see if ATOS/ has given you the correct ammount (vs the information), they work for the DWP independantly from ATOS/ BUT will be looking through what atos have sent them.

(this is why i said "now await and see if they are an idiot" (because people in your situation, anecdotally should be in the support group (you need them to "figure out" this for themself (>fingers crossed!!))

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tribunal, is seperate i don't know the specifics, but it's a seperate gouvernment ruling body or something, they are impartial from DWP / ATOS,

also those guys have the "highest" power of ruling etc, can just say "no" to the dwp / atos etc, and rule in your favour etc, regardless of the ridiculous amount of time (months and months) ATOS > DWP have been saying one thing, it doesn't matter (but they can also rule against you).

then there is a even further (i think last ?) one (as a judge / gp shouldn't be getting things wrong !!!), called "top tier tribunal", presumably you would have to commute to a court or something, to be seen (i don't know), but here you have to show the judge / gp ruled with bias / error (need to know about law / legal help) as very complicated for the uninitiated (no-idea)

i think (again not completely certain)

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it's a REALLY good opportunity to see the GP / judge though at 1st tribunal IMHO < that much i know for sure ! (would probably be homeless etc)

you can see how if atos gets it wrong, sends "the wrong" info to the desicion maker, then they can get it wrong also; but like i say > not our problem, them getting it wrong is it ? ...still ill and can't provide income for myself (thus don't really/honestly care about what they are saying if doesn't correlate with "reality").

Alice_Holt

Daisychains - I thought it might be helpful if I set out the appeal process.

After the MR (assuming that the DWP don't change the decision), the next stage is to appeal to the Tribunal Service (TS).

This is done on a SSCS1 form (http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmctsformfinder/sscs001-eng.pdf)
A copy of the DWP response to your MR has to be attached. DO opt to attend the hearing, then you can explain fully to the panel. Don't opt for a hearing at short notice. Tell them about your difficulties in leaving the house - you may wish to ask them about the possibility of a phone hearing or request adequate notice so your friend can take you and attend with you.

You will receive a bundle of papers from the DWP which includes your orginal ESa 50, the WCA, and the DWP reasons for placing you in the WRAG. You can go through these, and use them to prepare your statement to the TS explaining why the SG is appropriate for you.

You send further evidence directly to the TS in readiness for your hearing.
This might include further evidence from your GP (very useful if your GP is supportive, you can see them and show them the ESa SG descriptors and the S35 regulation, and their letter relates directly to the appropriate descriptors or states that your health would be at significant risk if you had to comply with WRAG activities); evidence from family, carers, friends; your statement outlining to the TS why you should be placed in the SG - give examples of how your mental health would be at risk from attending WRAG; your comments on the DWP reasons for not placing you in the SG and the validity of the WCA.
It is best to keep your submissions to the tribunal brief, to the point, and relevant to the ESa SG activities / S35.
(Think of the panel's reaction to the info you send them).
Your evidence to the TS is best sent to them at least 10 days before the tribunal date. As the TS will then distribute it to the tribunal members. That way the panel will be able to read and consider your evidence before the hearing.

Some more info here:
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/esa-and-substantial-risk

The How To Win a PIP Appeal guide is really helpful on the appeal process (which is virtually the same process as ESa appeals).

For instance these bits are really helpful when you are preparing for the tribunal -

"For most people, the thing that is of most help is written evidence from their GP or other doctor. If you have a social worker, community psychiatric nurse, occupational therapist, or other professional, evidence from them will be very useful too.

The most useful evidence will explain how your illness or disability affects you, and the help you need (paying particular attention to the descriptors that you meet). This is unusual, so your doctor/social worker etc may not understand that. So give them a copy of the activities / descriptors.......

......You should think about keeping a diary of the help you need each day. It will help the tribunal panel to get a proper understanding of your situation. It is particularly helpful if your illness or disability isn't the same every day. Keep a diary for a month if you can (but a shorter time will also be helpful). It can be brief. Include everything that is connected to the activities’ that entitlement to [ESa] is based on. (Note: It is a good idea to take your diary with you to the tribunal hearing, as you can use it to give the panel members examples about how your disability affects you).

If you get help from somebody and find this sort of thing hard, you could ask them to keep a diary of the help they have given you instead (as an alternative to the letter - see above).......

.......If you (or someone who is helping you) are good with writing, you should think about writing a statement for the tribunal. These can be very useful as they set out all your points, which means that you don't have to remember everything to say on the day. They also give the panel time to think about what you’ve said and why you should be getting the benefit before they meet you."

Good Luck, and do consider getting help from your local CAB.

Daisychains

Thank you for all of the replies and the information guys I will have a look through the links. I've just edited my MR so that it is more concise and to the point, I've basically put the support group descriptors in bold then written under each why I think this applies to me, this came to 5 pages.

I will be posting it to tomorrow and am also posting one to my job centre adviser asking her if I still need to attend my WFI during the MR or if it can be deferred or done over the phone. I am too unwell mentally to go out to my doctors surgery so I have just written on my MR that I give my permission for them to contact my doctor and access my medical records.

Daisychains

Thank you, I think it was October I was put in the support group so it hasn't been long at all really x

Alice_Holt

Just a thought -

Is it possible that you could speak to your GP by telephone?
Let him/her know what is happening, and ask if (s)he would be able to support your appeal.

If the answer is yes, then you could write a follow-up letter along these lines:

"Dear Dr [XXX],

I am appealing a DWP decision of [date] to place me in the WRAG (work related activity group) for ESa.

I will be sending a statement to the Tribunal Service detailing why I believe this decision to be wrong, and the impact that leaving the house to attend WRAG activities such as work-focused interviews and meetings, work-related training sessions, condition management programmes, and possibly voluntary work, would have on my mental health.

I understand that it would be helpful if I am able to supply the Tribunal Service with medical evidence. Is it possible that as my GP for over XX years, you could respond to the following:

1) Do you think because of my mental health condition there would be a substantial risk my health if I was required to participate in work-related activities.

I am of this opinion because:

.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


[Only include if this is appropriate to you Daisychains] 2) Could you comment if reliable engagement in social contact is precluded due to my difficulty in relating to others or because of experiencing significant distress.
[ or any other SG decsriptor(s) that apply to you]

..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


GP's Name:

GP's signature:

Surgery:

Date:





If the GP supports you, then this letter would be medical evidence which you could sent to the TS for the next stage of the appeal.