EU - why do we need trade agreement with it instead of agreements with individual cou

justme111

CLAPTON wrote: »

we can trade with individual EU countries without any 'deal'

.

Could you please quote your source or explain how come others say the opposite (adding to it generous dose of insults which makes what they say hard to believe but at the same time it would be unbelievable so many people say things so surely without knowing those things are true)

Aliliva

justme111 wrote: »

Something does not add up. All the countries in the world that EU trades with do not have agreement of free movement with the EU. How come Britain would be required to have it?
Could someone quote the source of information stating no country which is in the EU is allowed to have trade deals with any other country individually as it is hard to believe.

EU fundamental pillars free movement of goods, people and money, and if you want one you have to oblige to the others.
As you point out, obviously the world is trading with the EU, so it's possible. But they see their products taxed and they tax our products, and they require visa for working there as we require visas for their citizens (I'm specifically talking about working or being permanently resident, travelling is a completely different matter), as well as protecting the movement of capitals.
So, in the future, the trade will still go on, don't doubt of it. But it'll be taxed, thus more expensive and, possibly, UK will see its market share in EU reduced because of more expensive products.

Aliliva

justme111 wrote: »

Could you please quote your source or explain how come others say the opposite (adding to it generous dose of insults which makes what they say hard to believe but at the same time it would be unbelievable so many people say things so surely without knowing those things are true)

Just read my last couple of posts. I don't think I've insulted anybody in them and I've tried to be as clear as my not incredibly sharp economic understanding allows me to be

justme111

Ah sorry I tarred u with the same brush , you probably the only person replying my questions that did not use insults.
Thank you for your reply , it does make sense now. So trade is perfectly possible without free movement , just taxed. As presumably our trade with the rest of the world is.
So people shouting from roof tops and pulling their hair out trade is impossible without free movement are wrong thenm

Aliliva

justme111 wrote: »

Ah sorry I tarred u with the same brush , you probably the only person replying my questions that did not use insults.
Thank you for your reply , it does make sense now. So trade is perfectly possible without free movement , just taxed. As presumably our trade with the rest of the world is.
So people shouting from roof tops and pulling their hair out trade is impossible without free movement are wrong thenm

No worries :beer:

As I said in another tread, it's probably high time we all calm down and work together to make the most out of this result, whether we like it or no (and believe me, as a EU migrant I don't like it). Trading with the EU will probably be more difficult for the UK, but no more that it's difficult for Australia to trade with the EU right now. And London might lose part of the financial services market, but again, we could all hope that the next government will cut out a nice deal.
What I regret mostly is the loss of free movement, given that I've enjoyed living in several EU countries as if they were all the same nation. But that's democracy and Uk citizens have spoken

CLAPTON

Aliliva wrote: »

UK is currently trading fine with those countries because of the trade agreement between the EU (of which UK is still part) and the third parties countries. In simple words, for the sake of trading, the EU behaves like one single country.

Following the Brexit, the UK will have to:
- Sign up a deal with the EU
- Sign up deals with the rest of the world (some other 100s countries) or trade with them under the WTO rules

So, nothing impossible to do, just time and money consuming. And, from my personal point of view, the earlier they start the better, to put an end to the market uncertainties

this is simply wrong

we export to the (e.g.) USA as the Uk and NOT as part of the EU although we are obliged to levy EU tariff on imports from the USA.

Aliliva

CLAPTON wrote: »

this is simply wrong

we export to the (e.g.) USA as the Uk and NOT as part of the EU although we are obliged to levy EU tariff on imports from the USA.

I could have got it wrong, but if the EU is not in charge of trade agreements with the US why is the EU as a whole negotiating the TTIP with them?

rubuhoeikanaika

justme111 wrote: »

Something does not add up. All the countries in the world that EU trades with do not have agreement of free movement with the EU. How come Britain would be required to have it?
Could someone quote the source of information stating no country which is in the EU is allowed to have trade deals with any other country individually as it is hard to believe.

A lot of people are confusing trade with the single market. Yes of course you can trade with other countries without having free movement, even 'free trade' which means that the country won't impose any tariffs. That's why you can sell a baby car seat made in England to the USA, though you may pay a bit of customs tax.

The European single market, which also includes free movement of people, is far more than that, in two ways. First, it gets rid of 'non-tariff barriers', like different regulations. You can sell that baby car seat to someone in the US, but it would be illegal for them to drive on the roads with it. One of the main jobs of the European Commission is to harmonise regulations so that this kind of thing doesn't happen in Europe--eg any baby car seat that meets English standards will also be legal to use in Spain.

The second is that the single market includes things like services, especially financial services. Trade with the rest of the world generally doesn't. So, for example, Britain has a lot of really cool architects. Once they are licenses to work in Britain, they can also be used to design bridges in France, for example, without any additional barriers. The same is *not* true outside the single market. This is why the City of London will be particularly shafted if we leave the single market: it makes so much money selling financial services to other countries in that market. Free movement of people is particularly important for services: it's important that the architect or banker be able to come and work on the site, etc.

It's way more than just a matter of free trade. From the UK's point of view, we buy a lot more goods than we sell (like German cars). So even outside the single market, the German car manufacturers would be basically OK selling to us. Just like we can buy American cars.

But we sell a lot more services than we buy. So if we left the single market but kept free trade, it would hurt us right in the most profitable area.

Anyone who talks about the economic implications of brexit and who confuses 'free trade' with the single/common market is simply not to be listened to. All these facts were in the newspapers before the vote but were dismissed as scaremongering.

stator

The EU doesn't have a trade deal with US at the moment but may do soon (it's very controversial). So any US<->UK trade currently going on will continue unaffected. It's really only the UK<->EU trade that we need to worry about.

justme111

Right. So we can trade both with other nations and EU , just that with EU it will be taxed. So whoever is crying the end of the world because we can not trade with europe without free movement is being either deliberately misleading or ignorant so scaremongering continues.
I suppose if it will be taxed part of that tax is going to go to British government as well. Every change creates winners and losers. British architects will not be able to work in europe with same ease but British dentists will not have the same scale of competition from EU trained ones that driven income down by a third. Some stuff would be more expensive, some stuff cheaper ( as I understand we had to tax non eu countries imports)
Aliliva , shengen multi entry long term (5/10 years) visa should be an easy answer