Student finance threatening me with a penalty, need help.

RyanairIssue

Feeling quite anxious about this although I feel I’ve done nothing wrong.

I was badly injured after university and spent awhile on ESA while undergoing several surgical procedures. I cancelled my ESA when a gift from my parents to help me pay for private surgery brought me over the savings threshold. I was then contacted by student finance after I closed my ESA benefit asking for evidence of how I was supporting myself I replied giving them full details of what I was doing and explain how I was still at home so didn’t need to pay rent or food and supplied them with details of my savings which admittedly are very diminished.

They wrote back saying my evidence wasn’t sufficient and so exasperated I wrote back explaining that I didn’t know what more evidence they required and again explaining that I wasn’t in receipt of benefits nor was I working but was simply recovering at my parents’ home who’re providing for me.

My parents did then sign the third party declaration to say they’re supporting me but refused to enclose bank account details as they rightly pointed out it’s none of student finance’s business and as they’re not giving me money but food and so on it wouldn’t prove a thing.
However they’ve now sent me a letter threatening a fine if I don’t supply evidence. I don’t know what to do next I’ve tried explaining my situation twice and I can’t supply anymore evidence than I’ve done so already. The whole thing is making me very anxious at a time when I am trying to recover.


The letter: imgur.com/H5keYSV

agarnett

To start to give readers an indication of the whole story, OP, what sort of timelines are we talking about? I.e.

• year of graduation
• year of accident
• year of receipt of gift
• how many years on ESA (if indeed it was years rather than weeks or months)
• year first advised SFE of change of circumstances ... perhaps in theory they may be making a dogs dinner and looking at as many as four changes:
  • accident
  • start of ESA
  • receipt of gift
  • end of ESA/start of income support by parents

and perhaps it might be useful for readers to get some idea of whether SFE can see from your own bank records whether the gift so far has exceeded the costs of surgery and/or whether they have indicated they may be considering viewing it as income for the particular year in which it was received.

One might easily wonder whether the question from SFE would even arise if you were still on benefits with no financial support or accommodation provided by your parents. We assume you are well into your twenties, and as such, surely your parents are very right in principle to state that it is none of SFE's business to demand to assess their financial position in relation to yours.

As it stands, of course your story is one where it is easy to get a first impression that SFE are being very unreasonable, and as parent of students who are very much now in debt to SFE I am concerned about the ways in which SFE may operate when fate intervenes and messes up original life plans. My gut feeling is that the system is not very sympathetic to such upsets. We can read lots about standard scenarios where students enter into SFE agreements and go through uni more or less as planned, and then get a job, ... or don't get a job, or plain fail to make their degree leverage their future incomes, and who may bumble along under various thresholds. However, as only a small minority suffer other major life upsets like you, we rarely hear examples of what happens to you as a group.

Can you tell us a little more?

sheramber

Student finance are responsible for ensuring student loans are repaid when appropriate.

Anyone claiming they are not liable to repay their loan is asked to provide proof of that.

If you were claiming you were living off savings they would need to see evidence that you had enough savings to live off.

As you are claiming you have no income but are being supported they want to see evidence that the person supporting you has the ability to do so and you are not claiming falsely to avoid repaying your student loan.

Alternatively, you could make voluntary repayments to avoid having to provide such evidence.

sallyhaywood

Sorry, I can't see where to post a new thread about student finance and sympathise with your plight. I wonder if anyone can direct me to accurate information on my situation. My daughter started her course in 2013 and this is her last year. I am required to find and submit two years of tax returns and A LOT of associated documentation, which I don't have. It is with my accountant but will take time and money to get. I asked Student finance yesterday to tell me if it is worth it, i.e. how much will she get as a maintenance loan based on a parental income of £44,000. Twice, I held on the phone for ages only to be told they didn't know!

Very frustrated as it would be worth spending hours on this for a few hundred pounds but not for one hundred or so when it would cost me more than that to copy and collate the information.

Can anyone advise please?

agrinnall

Link to New Thread button

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=25

Ed-1

sallyhaywood wrote: »

Sorry, I can't see where to post a new thread about student finance and sympathise with your plight. I wonder if anyone can direct me to accurate information on my situation. My daughter started her course in 2013 and this is her last year. I am required to find and submit two years of tax returns and A LOT of associated documentation, which I don't have. It is with my accountant but will take time and money to get. I asked Student finance yesterday to tell me if it is worth it, i.e. how much will she get as a maintenance loan based on a parental income of £44,000. Twice, I held on the phone for ages only to be told they didn't know!

Very frustrated as it would be worth spending hours on this for a few hundred pounds but not for one hundred or so when it would cost me more than that to copy and collate the information.

Can anyone advise please?

This student finance calculator for 2015/16 should give you a good idea: http://www.studentfinance.direct.gov.uk/calculator/studentfinancecalculator/1516/

The maximum maintenance loan amounts for 2016/17 have been increased by 2.41% from 2015/16 so the figures will be very slightly higher than the calculator gives.

• The maximum maintenance loan for students living away from home and studying outside London: £5,878.
• The maximum maintenance loan for students living away from home and studying in London: £8,202.
• The maximum maintenance loan for students living at home:£4,675.
• The maximum maintenance loan for students living overseas as part of their studies: £6,984.

For 2015/16 a residual household income of £44,000 would have seen the student awarded a maintenance loan of £4448 if they live at home or £5623 if they live away from home outside London. No maintenance grant as the income is above the threshold for maximum maintenance grant.

agarnett

sheramber wrote: »

Student finance are responsible for ensuring student loans are repaid when appropriate.

Anyone claiming they are not liable to repay their loan is asked to provide proof of that.

If you were claiming you were living off savings they would need to see evidence that you had enough savings to live off.

As you are claiming you have no income but are being supported they want to see evidence that the person supporting you has the ability to do so and you are not claiming falsely to avoid repaying your student loan.

Alternatively, you could make voluntary repayments to avoid having to provide such evidence.

Oh yeah - sorry - forgot - because the UK is full of opportunists the OP's age who operate in the black economy as drug dealers etc., SFE has to interrogate anyone who doesn't have an NI history. Better to pay SFE protection money as sheramber suggests ... it's a whole lot less hassle.

Sheesh ...

sheramber

Unfortunately, thems the rules and the staff have to follow them.

Take the matter up with your MP.

You could sign on for JSA.

Even if you don't get any payment you should get NI credit and would have proof of signing on for SFE

agarnett

sheramber wrote: »

Unfortunately, thems the rules and the staff have to follow them.

Rules are for the guidance of the wise and for the blind adherence of fools.

Take the matter up with your MP.

No, our MPs are bloody busy at the moment with the fallout of a recklessly created referendum voted upon by hoards of more childish fools doing exactly what their government and right thinkers told them not to do. The psychology of the typical English voter is so predictable when given complete freedom in such matters (like a contrary kid - Dad says I mustn't do it, so I will ...).

You know so much about it, you take the matter up with someone who cares enough to improve the system from below, rather than keeping your head down and waiting for pension day.

You could sign on for JSA.

So could you if someone decided you weren't currently employable.

Even if you don't get any payment you should get NI credit and would have proof of signing on for SFE

Ridiculous, isn't it? Whilst this might be a feasible suggestion in theory, have you ever been to a Job Centre on a regular basis to sign on? It's like visiting the seediest of night clubs as far as entry and exit are concerned (complete with drug dealers and traffickers in BMWs waiting outside, looking to intercept their prey). No one in their right mind dares go into a Job Centre unless they really, really have to, and the OP doesn't unless you are saying the opposite is the only way to keep the scary robotic civil servants off their back?

What a way to run a railway ...

sheramber

agarnett wrote: »

Rules are for the guidance of the wise and for the blind adherence of fools.

No, our MPs are bloody busy at the moment with the fallout of a recklessly created referendum voted upon by hoards of more childish fools doing exactly what their government and right thinkers told them not to do. The psychology of the typical English voter is so predictable when given complete freedom in such matters (like a contrary kid - Dad says I mustn't do it, so I will ...).

You know so much about it, you take the matter up with someone who cares enough to improve the system from below, rather than keeping your head down and waiting for pension day.

I have no complaint to make to my MP. I have no problem with someone being asked to prove that they are liable to pay back a loan from taxpayers money. The OP feels agrieved so it is up to him to take action. sInce you feel the system is wrong what are you doing about it, apart from writing sarcastic posts.

Pension day came a long time ago.

So could you if someone decided you weren't currently employable.

Pensioners can't sign on, so that is a useless suggestion

Ridiculous, isn't it? Whilst this might be a feasible suggestion in theory, have you ever been to a Job Centre on a regular basis to sign on? It's like visiting the seediest of night clubs as far as entry and exit are concerned (complete with drug dealers and traffickers in BMWs waiting outside, looking to intercept their prey). No one in their right mind dares go into a Job Centre unless they really, really have to, and the OP doesn't unless you are saying the opposite is the only way to keep the scary robotic civil servants off their back?

Used to share a building with one and well aware of what goes on. The OP has said he previously claimed ESA so it was no problem then for him to do so when he got money.

What a way to run a railway ...

What you think of system will not help the OP.

agarnett

What you think of system will not help the OP

It will if the OP realises there are plenty of us out here who are right thinkers and do not promulgate unfair systems for our own continued comfort. A body of opinion which may yet overturn that nasty British trait of keeping those with less than oneself submitted/yoked to the unbalanced system that keeps you in the life to which you have been accustomed and feel entitled.

Did you go to university? If so you should be bloody ashamed to be arguing that any student should be hounded to pay back money they were forced to borrow from successive governments just to complete their educations, especially one who has suffered a life-changing accident.

If not, I think you should count yourself lucky that you have cruised to a life of leisure - yours was the generation that never had it so good, right - and you arrived at the top of the heap by keeping your head down in a building that also housed a JobCentre - should we congratulate you on your perseverance in the face of adversity - or did you use a separate entrance and exit to the same building?

We clearly have a problem in the UK - we are getting top heavy not with immigrants but with public sector pensioners who are at the top of the life expectancy leagues because their jobs never wore anyone out, and thus are costing us disproportionately much since we are a low tax society.

Until we double taxation, halve personal allowances and double minimum wages we simply cannot afford to promulgate massive divisions in wealth distribution such as pays your internet bill.

We have far more important things to spend state money on like education than on shelling out 40 year windfalls to ex-civil servants who had careers continually making judgements on who is "entitled" and who isn't.