Parking Charge Notice in a Free Car Park (fail to display)

Wilcouk

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yes, a big issue, and this was covered in the appeal as shown by the OP (I remember this case now).

I think that Sue needs to respond robustly with a copy of her appeal and say what part of 'not relevant land' and Robert Goodwill's letter to Councils, did District Enforcement not understand? I would ask a load of questions relating to that issue. Ask if their client believes they are relying on the POFA in this case? If not, ask for the evidence of who the driver was and ask for all photos taken that day of the car and signs.

Do not add weak comments like ''seems very harsh for a free car park and receiving a £150 fine for it'' because it's not a fine - and don't talk about 'no loss' because that's as dead as a dodo.

I'm quite interested in how they got her name for the parking offence, the only way they would of done so is from the email i sent out on her behalf which they didn't respond to, otherwise the Registered Keeper of the Vehicle is in my Dad's name, so are they practically admitting they received my written response and chose to fully ignore it and all the while telling me i haven't responded and increasing the amount owed, how strange.

Tried ringing them but my step mother needs to give them permission for me to talk to them about this case so i can't do nothing till i do that, however once i do i will request all photos and signs and refer this case back not relevant land' and Robert Goodwill's letter to Councils...

Wilcouk

Hi all,

i spoke to Gladstones and apparently now the only way i can challenge this ticket is by actually going to Court.... that all by the way without one single shred of evidence, i requested evidence/pictures and i was bluntly told i would only get that by request in Court? I also asked how they got my step-mothers name, she is not named as the registered keeper of the car, my Dad is, the only way they got her name was from the previous email i sent to District Enforcement about this challenging it - which by the way they claim they never got as the reason why they going to court is because of no response to the case.... despite me having sent emails to both the council and District Enforcement, i can now only talk to Gladstone Solicitors about this case as now all correspondence goes through them so can't even talk to DE to request them to drop the case and refer to High Wycombe.

This whole thing seems quite heavy handed for a car park that is actually free for upto 2 hours or so.

Oh to add insult to injury, the fine now stands at £230, i now have to take some time off work to fight this case actually in a court so maybe i should counter-sue and claim compensation for wasting my time and emotional distress to my step mother.

Coupon-mad

Why did you ring Gladstones? No-one here ever tells an OP to ring a parking firm or debt collector or Gladstones, who are run by the same people who run the IPC (Trade body) and who run the appeals service that was never offered to you...

Yep, same people. And you rang them! Oh dear, it gets worse:

also asked how they got my step-mothers name, she is not named as the registered keeper of the car, my Dad is,

Why did you not appeal in Dad's name as keeper, as the NEWBIES thread told you to, and there was a huge clue in the letter I wrote for the KEEPER to send, at the start it has these words:

'' I am the registered keeper of VRN ******''

You were not meant to appeal in the driver's name. It was written for the keeper to appeal, for reasons fully explained in the NEWBIES thread. It is awful to read that this happened - you have thrown away the entire defence point relating to Council ownership and the fact it is not relevant land. All in the bin.

i now have to take some time off work to fight this case actually in a court

No you don't. You can't get involved, you can't appear instead of the defendant. Your Step-Mum is the defendant. Should have been your Dad and this would have been so much easier,

I am concerned on the phone you may have even told Gladstones that Dad is the keeper, Mum was the driver...? Please say you didn't.

the fine now stands at £230,

It is not a fine.

maybe i should counter-sue and claim compensation for wasting my time and emotional distress to my step mother.

You can't get involved and you don't counter-sue for costs, they can be claimed by the defendant after/at the end of the hearing - if she wins.

Wilcouk

Why did you ring Gladstones? No-one here ever tells an OP to ring a parking firm or debt collector or Gladstones, who are run by the same people who run the IPC (Trade body) and who run the appeals service that was never offered to you...

I rang Gladstones because District Enforcement weren't having any of it and refused to discuss anything and told me that all correspondence goes through Gladstones, so was like knocking my head against the wall.

Why did you not appeal in Dad's name as keeper, as the NEWBIES thread told you to, and there was a huge clue in the letter I wrote for the KEEPER to send, at the start it has these words:

Quote:
'' I am the registered keeper of VRN ******''

You were not meant to appeal in the driver's name. It was written for the keeper to appeal, for reasons fully explained in the NEWBIES thread. It is awful to read that this happened - you have thrown away the entire defence point relating to Council ownership and the fact it is not relevant land. All in the bin.

out of interest, why is that defence now in the bin? besides anyway they claim they never received this appeal from me....

No you don't. You can't get involved, you can't appear instead of the defendant. Your Step-Mum is the defendant. Should have been your Dad and this would have been so much easier,

I am concerned on the phone you may have even told Gladstones that Dad is the keeper, Mum was the driver...? Please say you didn't.

Well i never said my Step Mum was the Driver, i was enquiring about how they got her name and why they contacted her instead of the actual registered keeper of the car which would of been my Father.

My Step Mum wouldn't be able to defend herself in court, she'd crack and probably cave into their demands if it even got that far and therefore paying this thing whatever it is.

So, i guess i screwed up the whole case and it's all in their court? got me by the balls it seems.

However, there is one thing - i still haven't got any evidence of her parking there, like no pictures taken of the car at the time of the offence to suggest it was even her?

Coupon-mad

out of interest, why is that defence now in the bin?

Because it flows from Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 which only protects (or makes liable) keepers, that's why the appeals here are always written from the registered keeper. In this case you had a slam-dunk likely-to-win-in-court defence for your Dad because it is Council land and the POFA says he can't be held liable. But you offered up your Step-Mum.

besides anyway they claim they never received this appeal from me....

But you hopefully kept proof of posting, free from the PO Counter, a little receipt 'Certificate of posting'?

I rang Gladstones because District Enforcement weren't having any of it and refused to discuss anything and told me that all correspondence goes through Gladstones, so was like knocking my head against the wall.

Don't tell me you also tried ringing Dyl Kurpil & cronies after all I told you above about them? Nowhere do we ever tell people to pick up the phone to these people.

So, i guess i screwed up the whole case and it's all in their court? got me by the balls it seems.

They have your Step-Mum in their sights, not you.

However, there is one thing - i still haven't got any evidence of her parking there, like no pictures taken of the car at the time of the offence to suggest it was even her?

True, but you gave that away on the phone. This one is so frustrating and it doesn't even sound like your Step-Mum would be up to defending it.

Wilcouk

Because it flows from Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 which only protects (or makes liable) keepers, that's why the appeals here are always written from the registered keeper. In this case you had a slam-dunk likely-to-win-in-court defence for your Dad because it is Council land and the POFA says he can't be held liable. But you offered up your Step-Mum.

Well, to be honest i looked like i've done this quite hastily probably more in anger to get one over a parking firm that i didn't do this the correct way.

But you hopefully kept proof of posting, free from the PO Counter, a little receipt 'Certificate of posting'?

i didn't mail in, i e-mailed and submitted via their on-line complaints thing that i posted in this thread, still they claim they never received or even acknowledged that i emailed them to defend the claim, or anything that was in that email at least.

Don't tell me you also tried ringing Dyl Kurpil & cronies after all I told you above about them? Nowhere do we ever tell people to pick up the phone to these people.

Luckily, that i didnt do! all i did was ring Gladstones and ring the council, the council told me they make no money from these (despite their website stating it does) and it's all to stop commuters from using the "car area" (they specifically stated it wasn't a car park) and just !!!!!!ing off to work whilst the locals have no where to park for the common use or hall.

True, but you gave that away on the phone. This one is so frustrating and it doesn't even sound like your Step-Mum would be up to defending it.

Nope, she would be utterly hopeless in court.

Can i in theory just start again? like if they claim they never received my defence, when the claim pack comes in, can i reply to that with the defence stated in the newbies thread?

Coupon-mad

The NEWBIES thread doesn't have a template 'defence' to a claim. An appeal is not the same thing.

Sadly, you can't start again because they started off knowing your Dad was the keeper, they wrote to him and HE should have been the person responding.

By offering up your Step Mum in an appeal that I wrote clearly for the registered keeper to sign, and by phoning G's and talking about how your Dad is the keeper and your Step-Mum isn't, it sounds to me that you made it crystal clear she was driving which was the absolute no-no. Her name should never have featured at all and now she is the Defendant, if they try a small claim.

Anyway, I am pleased to see Emanreu on pepipoo (who also posts here) has info about that location and has offered to help you off-forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=111115&pid=1248953&st=0&#entry1248953

You can trust him to assist to help you unpick this but ultimately if there is a claim, you've put your Step-Mum's name on it.