Bad Breath - Jack Russell

BOBS

We have an ongoing problem with our JRT - his breath is vile - sometimes he starts licking things round him - usually his bedding - and the smell becomes worse.... so bad that it fills the whole sitting room........ also when he licks quite often his teeth chatter strangely !
Spoke to the vet and they say nothing they can do unless they put him under anaesthetic - he would not be the best behaved dog with them and would probably snarl and snap !
Any ideas as to what this is or what we could try before we go down the anaesthetic route.

He is 9 years old and a wee house dog - he gets his dried dog food but also left overs and tit bits..... But this diet has been the same since we got him, so nothing different there.

GwylimT

Whats his dental routine like?

krlyr

A vet needs to establish the cause of bad breath, especially if it's sudden and no obvious trigger (like a change in diet). It could be dental-related, or it could be another medical condition (e.g. diabetes, sinusitis, even blocked anal glands can sometimes cause bad breath).

If he is otherwise healthy, I would be tempted to rule out medical causes ASAP with some blood tests etc. first before the anaesthetic (bonus of this is it'll give an idea of whether anaesthetic could be problematic for him, too), but for a Terrier, 9 isn't really old - my 9.5 year old Rottie x understand big leg surgery last November and did really well, and a good vet will know what warning signs to look out for when anaesthising an older dog.

Not sure I'd want to faff around too long (the longer you wait, there's the chance he may get poorly from something else and then not be in full health for the anaesthetic) but you could potentially try a change in diet to see if it did help - I know it's not for everyone, but I would be tempted in this case to trial a raw diet. Raw bones like chicken wings are great for cleaning the teeth, you avoid the added sugars in commercial foods, and raw is also supposed to be great for diabetic dogs as you avoid the peaks and troughs caused by a carb-heavy commercial diet. I don't propose it cures everything, but if you're that averse to the anaesthesia route, it's something to consider. Ditch the titbits too - you can feed plain cooked or dehydrated meats instead. There are several Facebook groups that are full of information on balanced raw diets if you'd consider that route, this website is great too - http://dogsdinner2.webs.com/quickstartguide.htm

krlyr

You could also start work on conditioning your dog to have his mouth examined, his teeth brushed, etc. It's not an overnight thing, but the sooner you start, the sooner you'll reach your end goal.

So you may, for example, start your first session with a tub of treats, and simply give the dog treats every time you hold his muzzle/chin in your hand. Treats when you're holding, stop when you're not. Repeat several times, end the session on a positive note. Do several sessions a day, if you can, even if it's 30 seconds, a minute - little and often will work well.

You might progress to your other hand on the muzzle - not even lifting the lips or anything - and treat. Just a brief touch, followed straight away with a treat. Next session might be lifting the lips for a second, the next might be 5 seconds, then 10, then 30, etc.

Basically, you want to break the whole process down into tiny training sessions with babysteps towards your end goal. If the dog seems uncomfortable at any stage, you'd gone too fast - you need to go back a step, and perhaps try a smaller change next time.

Once the dog is happy for you to do the dental exam, then start from the beginning with another person. You might be able to progress through the steps quicker second time around, you might not. Dogs don't always generalise very well, but the more we expose them to different situations, the more they can cope with changes. So a dog only ever used to you doing a dental exam may not be happy with the vet doing it - but if you've had 5 friends and family do it, and the vet is number 6, they may be more comfortable about it.

teddysmum

Some dogs will not have their mouth messed with, whatever you try.


I have had four cavaliers and of these two have loved having tooth cleans and begged for some paste, but the other two have hated it.


Learning from the experience of trying to clean an adult dog's teeth, the present two were examined from puppies, but Joly, now 13, has never been tolerant. He is not aggressive, but fights you off with his paws and becomes very distressed. (The vet said that some dogs are like that for no particular reason.)


Joly's bad breath and snotty nose were due to an infected canine tooth, now removed. (I rightly guessed the cause after seeing similar in a wallaby on a tv vet programme.)

BOBS

Just getting back on here - thanks for all the above posts

Gwylim - we dont have any dentai routine apart from chew at kongs - balls etc.
Krlyr - I know they have a longer life expectancy - friends jack russell lived until he was 19 - and never near a vet ! Not sure about the conditioning if it would ever work - he is the most stubborn, determined dog - to the point he really is unturnable - and he snarls and snaps at us. - this is not a new thing or related to his mouth - he needs a really firm hand just to keep relatively workable - that is until someone knocks the door and he goes completely mental.
We have had him since a puppy when the kids too were small and he probably got away with too much. Now he is unworkable when he puts his mind to it.
Then - we leave him at the kennels and they think he is the best behaved dog - grrrrrrrr
Teddysmum - our pooch would probably be agressive and wouldnt trust him not to take a bit out of the poor vet. He has snapped at us but not actually connected.

So all in all again thanks for advice but somehow think the only way we would even get bloods done or teeth checked would be anaesthetic unfortunately.
Kinda hoped someone had a magic answer ....:/

krlyr

I wouldn't write off his behaviour yet. Dogs respond very well to conditioning, because it's not training a trick, it's actually creating a subconcious reactive to a trigger. Think of Pavlov - the bell eventually created the body's automatic physical response, i.e. salivating in expectation of food.

My girl is 9.5 and I've been using conditioning to deal with reactive behaviour to other dogs. We've gone from a dog who would bark, whine and lunge at the sight of a dog down the road, to one who happily shared the back seat of a car with our new neighbour's dog to go out on a dog walk (and met a couple of new dogs on the way). It's been a gradual process, but she's come on in leaps and bounds.

We've also recently been using conditioning to teach her to have her nails filed. She's always hated having her nails done - she would screech at having them clipped like we were cutting the toes off instead. With some trusty yummy chicken, and lots of little training sessions, she now offers me her foot when she sees me pick up the nail file. We still have a little way to go, but it's a huge difference already.


I think it can help to not think of a dog as stubborn. I jest about it at times, but it's not really a dog trait. If they don't want to do something, it's pretty much for a reason. Whether it's painful, fearful, distressing, etc. to be handled - there's something he doesn't like, and he communicates in a completely natural way for a dog - growling, snapping, and ultimately biting, are all stages of a communication process in a dog that says "I don't like this, please stop". We don't need to be 'firm', we need to change this emotional response, which is unnecessary (since we aren't actually hurting the dog)

Dr Sophia Yin's video on nail trimming is a good example of how effective conditioning can be - especially as this is done in such a short time, in an already stressful situation (at the vets, with people who aren't his owners, etc.)
https://drsophiayin.com/videos/entry/training_a_dog_to_enjoy_toenail_trims/

Mupette

I have a JRT cross, erm when his teeth is chattering it's when he's been cleaning his equipment ifyswim.

First thing i think with breath is the usual teeth.

But if it stinks as bad as you think, what about his diet.

In humans if we have bad breath it's not always our teeth it can be dietary. - I'm no expert just thinking it could be something to ask the vet

BOBS

Krylr - that we video really good - would be great to have enough time and energy to retrain our pooch but he has so many bad habits.... suppose one thing at a time - mainly when someone knocks the door.

Thanks Mupette - thats so funny re teeth chattering - but not what our dog seems to be at - it really is just a random thing he seems to do - whether intentional or not. Usually accompanied by lots of licking - and coincidentally this seems to be when the smell is worse - can fill the whole room - kind of thought if teeth would always be there (??)
His diet hasnt changed any over the years - we leave out dried dog food to graze at (know thats wrong but no point changing life time habit !!) - and then he gets few left overs and tit bits here and there.
Going to have to take the plunge and book him in for anaesthetic for vet to have a look.

krlyr

Kikopup does a great video on teaching dogs not to bark at the door, well worth a watch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpzvqN9JNUA

BOBS

Krlyr - that one is definitely worth a try . What do they use as treats I wonder ?