ParkingEye - Parking Charge Notice - Ilford Retail Park

Kaywillsell

Hi,

The driver was visiting a local event and parked in the ParkingEye - Ilford Retail Park car-park. Paid for ticket/displayed and returned to the vehicle on time, to avoid an overstay. A few days later the registered keeper received a parking charge notice, showing photo of vehicle entry 7 mins before the ticket was bought(looking for change etc...) and a departure photo of 3 mins after paid time on ticket expired. So a 3 minute overstay.

So the vehicle did overstay and charges applied. As there was no other reason.

Question to the experts is;

1) Is there an overstay allowance(say 5mins/10mins) with PE as some councils allow or not?
2) If the newbie process to appeal is followed, is there a chance of charge cancelled from your experience
3) Options are pay £60 now or £100 later if the appeal is lost or is the £60 frozen until appeal decision?

As the driver does not live locally to the mentioned car park in Ilford, there is no means of checking any anomalies like signage/ticket machine notes/any photos etc. to fight this charge.

Any help is appreciated from the experts.

Thanks

Umkomaas

Grace period of around 10 minutes on arrival and at least 10 minutes on departure - check out Section A13 of the BPA Code of Practice which PE must follow.

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf

Also factor in that ANPR cameras only measure time of entry/time of departure, not actual time of parking, so there's at least a couple of minutes more that can be argued should be added too.

How to deal with this now? There is a detailed process laid out for you, including an initial appeal, which all you need to do is copy and paste it, in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, near the top of the forum thread list, one page back from this one. You only need to read post #1 for handling this initial stage (using post #2 which explains the acronyms used, if you need to).

Northlakes

The BPA code of practice is quite clear that that should be a 10 minute period of grace to allow parking up and or leaving/ purchasing a ticket.

On exit a similar grace time of 10 minutes in order to exit. So 20 minutes.

These P&D conditions with PE are getting interesting.

Does it say on the ticket machine you are paying for 'stay' time? No it doesn't.

Does it say if you enter a single digit wrong in entering the VRN you will get a parking charge of £100? No it doesn't.

How PE get away with this is beggars belief. However I do know of a complaint to Trading Standards about this but they are fairly toothless in England. I believe the legislation is there but not the willingness to take on a formidable opponent.

They will even turn down your initial appeal (as the keeper but I think you have read the NEWBIE thread so well done!).

So initial appeal to PE (they will turn you down) and follow up with POPLA appeal.

Aire Street Leeds is a useful one POPLA appeal to work from but only look at recent appeals not ones from last year.

Did you use a retailer on this site? If you did, this is good way of cancelling these PCN's by giving them some ear bashing.

Kaywillsell

Northlakes wrote: »

The BPA code of practice is quite clear that that should be a 10 minute period of grace to allow parking up and or leaving/ purchasing a ticket.

On exit a similar grace time of 10 minutes in order to exit. So 20 minutes.

These P&D conditions with PE are getting interesting.

Does it say on the ticket machine you are paying for 'stay' time? No it doesn't.

Does it say if you enter a single digit wrong in entering the VRN you will get a parking charge of £100? No it doesn't.

How PE get away with this is beggars belief. However I do know of a complaint to Trading Standards about this but they are fairly toothless in England. I believe the legislation is there but not the willingness to take on a formidable opponent.

They will even turn down your initial appeal (as the keeper but I think you have read the NEWBIE thread so well done!).

So initial appeal to PE (they will turn you down) and follow up with POPLA appeal.

Aire Street Leeds is a useful one POPLA appeal to work from but only look at recent appeals not ones from last year.

Did you use a retailer on this site? If you did, this is good way of cancelling these PCN's by giving them some ear bashing.

Thanks for a speedy response from you and 'Umkomaas'

No I was attending a event nearby and did not use the retail stores.

You have given me courage to fight this one.

Just one point: Is the £60 frozen or do I pay £100 if, for any reason, lose appeal?

Thanks

Kay

Umkomaas

Just one point: Is the £60 frozen or do I pay £100 if, for any reason, lose appeal?

You need to have a more positive outlook!

How much will I pay when I win my appeal?

Once you appeal to POPLA the 'discount' is no longer offered, but this is a PPC tactic to pressurise you into panicking and paying early, which avoids them having the potential to losing to you at POPLA.

You can win this with good preparation and help from us!

fergual2

straight from the BPA Code of Practice


13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.


So you should be ok with 3 mins overstay. Just send copy of ticket quote the BPA paragraph and request charge to be dropped or if it not dropped to issue a POPLA appeal code.

Kaywillsell

Another point just come to light....

The driver had a Blue Badge holder, as passenger, in the car, but not displayed with the ticket (or shall we say we did?) and the cameras cannot prove this. So should the appeal include the first template plus the parking ticket and Blue-badge copy?

Or just appeal stating the BPA grace period clause/the parking ticket and Blue-badge copy?

All suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Northlakes

PE are being very silly when it comes to short overstays.
Yes, mention a disabled passenger and the requirements of the equality act 2010.
See what this judge said the other day.
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk

A photograph of the signage at the site and that of the P&D ticket machine will be useful for your POPLA appeal as well.

Coupon-mad

Kaywillsell wrote: »

Another point just come to light....

The driver had a Blue Badge holder, as passenger, in the car, but not displayed with the ticket (or shall we say we did?) and the cameras cannot prove this. So should the appeal include the first template plus the parking ticket and Blue-badge copy?

Or just appeal stating the BPA grace period clause/the parking ticket and Blue-badge copy?

All suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Just attach the copy Blue Badge and say the Badge-Holder was a passenger. Do not comment on whether the Badge was displayed nor who was driving. Call the appellant - the person named on the postal PCN - the 'registered keeper' only, online when appealing.

Also attach any receipts from any occupants of the car, or a screenshot or scan of their Bank transaction (which will show a couple of days later but PE are used to that).

TBH you don't need to use the whole 'template appeal' if you don't want to because PE will cancel this due to either/or the Blue Badge or receipts, if over £30 was spent.

Kaywillsell

Hi Experts

I have added a few words in italics to the template; Please give your opinion...


Date:
Registered Keeper address:

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

The driver confirmed that the overstay was 3 minutes as proven by the attached ticket copy. And as stated in the BPA Code of Practice:


13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

In addition the driver had Blue Badge-Holder passenger. See attached copy of Blue Badge.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

Registered Keeper Name

---

Thanks for your feedback
Kay

Coupon-mad

Yep that will do, if you have no receipts to also show.