NHS pensions are bleeding the taxpayer dry

justme111

I am not sure public sector wages are lower , I think it may vary depending on exact position. In any case to alleviate concerns of op - NHS pensions had reforms in 2008 and 2015 and conditions got far worse. Retirement age the same as state pension age plus higher contribution rates. So people noticed it was a hole , benefits were too generous so they tightened the purse.
Newspaper articles are rarely fair representation of facts so people who know facts often get heated when faced with misrepresentation and misleading statements.

BobQ

uk1 wrote: »

Thanks.

My feeling about the topic is pretty straightforward and not in the least complicated. I think the debate about what people are paid in the NHS is a complete topic in itself but one discussion does not fit all. I happen to know that my GP and his wife - a fellow GP - earn around £500k between them and they have a stonking pension. I also see that they are harvesting patients like a crop. Make someone come in for a blood pressure check and "kerching" even if they self-monitor. If I go over the sugar limit and they can register me as a diabetic and then it is "kerching".

Jeff

I agree that the pay of the GPs you mention seems high.

When you say . you "happen to know" is this rumour or fact? Does it include private work they do?

I ask if it is rumour because GPs now have to publish their earnings on the practice website so you should be able to look it up.

Re "kerching" I may be wrong but think you misinterpret the situation. My understanding is that GPs or someone else can own a practice which is like any other business. The practice is funded through a service contract based on a fixed fee per patient that covers the cost of running the practice including paying the GPs and other staff. There are some other payments for services provided and a few incentives for meeting targets (% of patients getting flu jabs, having smear tests, etc). There is also a separate budget for commissioning services like hospital referrals, hospital tests.

I agree £500K is a lot for two GPs but it may include private work and the combined income from being employed as a GP by the practice and as a Director of the Practice. Also if they personally own the building in which the practice is based they will be paid rent by the practice.

uk1

BobQ wrote: »

I agree that the pay of the GPs you mention seems high.

When you say . you "happen to know" is this rumour or fact? Does it include private work they do?

I ask if it is rumour because GPs now have to publish their earnings on the practice website so you should be able to look it up.

Re "kerching" I may be wrong but think you misinterpret the situation. My understanding is that GPs or someone else can own a practice which is like any other business. The practice is funded through a service contract based on a fixed fee per patient that covers the cost of running the practice including paying the GPs and other staff. There are some other payments for services provided and a few incentives for meeting targets (% of patients getting flu jabs, having smear tests, etc. There is also a separate budget for commissioning services like hospital referrals, tests.

I agree £500K is a lot for two GPs but it may include private work and the combined income from being employed as a GP by the practice and as a Director of the Practice. Also if they personally own the building in which the practice is based they will be paid rent by the practice.

Thanks, yes I am aware of the detail of how the practices are financed and both doctors have separate practices and they have no private work. The salaries are known and it has become a bone of contention for their staff who discuss this openly. The buildings are NHS owned. They are responsible for maintenance but do none.

My only difference of opinion with you is one of semantics. I do not think the earnings "a lot" but "far too much".

Jeff

justme111

It may include all the expenses - staff pay, business loan payments and , myriad of compliance outlays and so on. Plus it would include their earnings like gps as well as their income as business owners and return on investment. Counting who gets what and make conclusions in what is fair is usually erroneous. Specially as everybody will have different opinions on how much more it is fair for a gp (manager, teacher) to earn than a cleaner.

GunJack

Just a point, and I'm not being pedantic for the sake of it, but you can't lump all the "public sector" into one. Civil Servants specifically don't get paid as much as local government, for instance, for similar roles/responsibilities, and therefore have similarly lower pensions. I've often seen some seemingly mad salaries on offer for LG jobs compared to similar level CS jobs.

I myself went from a CS job to a private sector one for a similar role, but less responsibility and a 20% pay hike (and a DB pension to boot), so to say all public sector are overpaid/overpensioned is twaddle, IMHO and experience...

Marktheshark

Senior staff qualify for accelerated contributions of superannuation schemes.
Just 5 years can see a senior executive obtain a £250k lump sum and £55,000 per year pension pot .

Most low floor workers will not live long enough to get their own contributions back.

Like everything this government has its hand in, their chums are milking it dry.
Still, we vote for them so why would they care

uk1

justme111 wrote: »

It may include all the expenses - staff pay, business loan payments and , myriad of compliance outlays and so on. Plus it would include their earnings like gps as well as their income as business owners and return on investment. Counting who gets what and make conclusions in what is fair is usually erroneous. Specially as everybody will have different opinions on how much more it is fair for a gp (manager, teacher) to earn than a cleaner.

Please.

As has been previously posted, the figures are available.

I promise you that you cannot run a medical practice with eight doctors, three nurses, a practice manager and other staff, pay all the other stuff for £250,000 and take a salary yourself, can you.

Jeff

justme111

Ok. Are you 100% sure you have ALL the information on ALL the conditions and outgoings?
Why are you bothered by it anyway ? Footballers may earn far more just happened that way , part and parcel and so on. What does it have to do with right and wrong, fair and not fair?
Do you think it is a positive feeling - to look at someone and think :"it is wrong he earns that , he should not"?

uk1

justme111 wrote: »

Ok. Are you 100% sure you have ALL the information on ALL the conditions and outgoings?
Why are you bothered by it anyway ? Footballers may earn far more just happened that way , part and parcel and so on. What does it have to do with right and wrong, fair and not fair?
Do you think it is a positive feeling - to look at someone and think :"it is wrong he earns that , he should not"?

Would I be right in assuming that you pay little or no tax and enjoy football?

Jeff

justme111

uk1 wrote: »

Would I be right in assuming that you pay little or no tax and enjoy football?

Jeff

Everything is relative
for some 4bed house is a cat constraining house