NHS pensions are bleeding the taxpayer dry

agarnett

We're not willy-waving I hope? Nah, not you - I've surely misunderstood something

But what does it matter if Singapore and Bangkok are chalk and cheese? Did I say they were identical? The Westin Beijing breakfasts and those generally swallowed daily by the residents of the hutongs of Beijing are also like chalk and cheese too, and you (like me) can walk between them in half an hour - have you seen those divergent (or is it convergent?) parts of this modern world?

Elders are generally more highly respected in all those Asian locations I think than in UK?

jimi_man

uk1 wrote: »

It is a tremendous shock when having always believed that you live in the best and most civilised of societies, that perhaps "freedom" has gone too far. It is extraordinary to see markets where stuff is all left out overnight and never gets stolen, because people would never do so. Where people always pay their fares. Where no one smokes in public. Where if you deal drugs your future is very bad. And if they want to build more metro, they get on with it.

Digress again!

Jeff

.... But if you don't want more Metro built, don't even think about protesting about that in public.

I think there is a big difference between not stealing stuff that's left out overnight, simply because you respect another person's property and don't want to steal it; and not stealing stuff that's left out overnight because the consequences if you get caught are just too severe. I would rather foster a culture of the first and not the second.

With CCTV virtually everywhere, a media with considerable state influence and one of the worst places in the world for freedom of speech, it was just a bit too Big Brother for me. It seems a low crime rate isn't everything as the population ranks as the unhappiest in the world - apparently below Haiti, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Food is awesome - the country.... just a bit too clinical. Personally, not a great role model for the UK.

'Benevolent dictatorship', hmmm possibly! How about (not quite) Totaliatarianism. Or better still '1983'!

agarnett

So how do we progress matters in the UK with regard the longevity problem which means NHS pensions are now bleeding us dry? Do we 100% respect our elders who are already drawing their public sector pension benefits, or are we to be cruel to be kind and start taxing them more heavily?

Or, are we to leave those elders alone, and instead concentrate on dumbing-down the DB pension scheme future benefits to which active and deferred public sector workers look forward and believe they remain entitled?

Or do we kick the can down the road some more?

uk1

Each to their own.

The people of Singapore are extremely law abiding and it is second nature. If If this is in part because they know the consequences of law breaking is harsh, then to be honest I prefer that environment than one where there appears to be little or no consequences to law breaking and it pervades daily life.

There is virtually no drug trafficking and virtually no crime. There is no graffiti, and women can walk through any streets safely at night and children play safely in the street. If one of the reasons for that is that punishments are harsh for some of these things then many would say "bring it on"

You can eat at any restaurant or street food stalls because every stall is regularly inspected and they must show their scores prominently. People do not eat at places with low scores and so they go out of business. It is easier to be spotlessly clean instead. If their sign isn't displayed they are closed instantly.

If a tourist is overcharged for some seafood, he calls a central number, the stall is investigated promptly and if it is found to be true, it is closed for a period and receives a heavy fine. This is why food stalls do not over charge. I was once overcharged by a taxi driver and questioned the charge by email. Later that afternoon a voucher was delivered to my hotel with a letter of apology explaining that the taxi driver would receive coaching.

I'm sure there will be many to find things to dislike but I love walking around safely, not seeing chewing gum on the pavement, graffiti over the walls, a largely "smoke free" environment, taxi drivers that return change and refuse tips, food places that are clean etc. You rarely see police people, and there are more cctv cameras in London than Singapore as far as I can see.

Once people get the hang of abiding by the law, you need to use the law far less often, and so far less get prosecuted.

But quite rightly ..... each to their own!:D

Jeff

jimi_man

uk1 wrote: »

Each to their own.

The people of Singapore are extremely law abiding and it is second nature. If If this is in part because they know the consequences of law breaking is harsh, then to be honest I prefer that environment than one where there appears to be little or no consequences to law breaking and it pervades daily life.

There is virtually no drug trafficking and virtually no crime. There is no graffiti, and women can walk through any streets safely at night and children play safely in the street. If one of the reasons for that is that punishments are harsh for some of these things then many would say "bring it on"

You can eat at any restaurant or street food stalls because every stall is regularly inspected and they must show their scores prominently. People do not eat at places with low scores and so they go out of business. It is easier to be spotlessly clean instead. If their sign isn't displayed they are closed instantly.

If a tourist is overcharged for some seafood, he calls a central number, the stall is investigated promptly and if it is found to be true, it is closed for a period and receives a heavy fine. This is why food stalls do not over charge. I was once overcharged by a taxi driver and questioned the charge by email. Later that afternoon a voucher was delivered to my hotel with a letter of apology explaining that the taxi driver would receive coaching.

I'm sure there will be many to find things to dislike but I love walking around safely, not seeing chewing gum on the pavement, graffiti over the walls, a largely "smoke free" environment, taxi drivers that return change and refuse tips, food places that are clean etc. You rarely see police people, and there are more cctv cameras in London than Singapore as far as I can see.

Once people get the hang of abiding by the law, you need to use the law far less often, and so far less get prosecuted.

But quite rightly ..... each to their own!:D

Jeff

The low crime rate is rightly something to be revered, and the whole area is clean, tidy and perfectly regulated. It's lovely to walk/travel around and having been quite few times over the past 30 years, I have always enjoyed my stays.

It's unfortunate that all that comes at the cost of having sapped the soul and the character of the place, introduced rules and regulations for virtually everything and anyone and consequently it's a rather bland, characterless and clinical place, though for tourists and the 50% of the population that are temporary immigrants who are there for working they don't notice it. But obviously it affects the locals otherwise they wouldn't be so unhappy.

But there is that undercurrent that comes across as being a mix of Hot Fuzz, Demolition Man and 1984. As you say, each to their own but I'd rather live somewhere with a bit more freedom, democracy, character and not have Big Brother watching my every move.

uk1

jimi_man wrote: »

The low crime rate is rightly something to be revered, and the whole area is clean, tidy and perfectly regulated. It's lovely to walk/travel around and having been quite few times over the past 30 years, I have always enjoyed my stays.

It's unfortunate that all that comes at the cost of having sapped the soul and the character of the place, introduced rules and regulations for virtually everything and anyone and consequently it's a rather bland, characterless and clinical place, though for tourists and the 50% of the population that are temporary immigrants who are there for working they don't notice it. But obviously it affects the locals otherwise they wouldn't be so unhappy.

But there is that undercurrent that comes across as being a mix of Hot Fuzz, Demolition Man and 1984. As you say, each to their own but I'd rather live somewhere with a bit more freedom, democracy, character and not have Big Brother watching my every move.

I am unaware of the degree of unhappiness you mention, and feel that one character has simply been replaced with another more modern character of progress. It has replaced one post-war run down and destitute character to a can do relatively prosperous character.

Some elements that could have only happen in such a regime like Singapore is the extraordinary leaps in education and what that has brought. For example, simply at a stroke deciding that every child will speak English fluently by the time they leave school.

You appear to know Singapore ... I'm not certain when you last spent time there .... but many who make similar comments are those that have not spent any time there or have been recently.

Jeff

stephennt

uk1 wrote: »

Haven't Asians tended to live longer?

You could argue that it is a symptom of the breaking down of social responsibility and our failing society that we have needed to resort to introduce all these care homes and benefits in our society when in other societies they wouldn't dream of driving granny to a home and dumping her.

I spend a lot of time in Singapore, and more and more I prefer many of their systems to ours. They do seem more civilised and well ordered



Jeff

It's not totally down to "failing morals"; even in Italy things are changing with both parents now commonly having to work, and people living longer (those households now tend to be great-grandparents, grandparents, parents and children) with more longer term medical conditions that are tougher to look after.

Having said that it's more common now for Italians to hire "badantes" (women, typically from eastern europe/ex-USSR, that live in the home and care for the elderly) rather than put people into a care home.