Is it possible to pay someone elses debt?

jackster123

Good evening,

I hope you're all well? A bit of a plea for help, as this really isnt something I know much about...

I was chatting to my mum earlier, and the subject of her prepaid electric came up. She has been paying upwards of £40 per week, which seemed a bit excessive, so I thought I would investigate.

On checking the meter, it seems a debt of £10 per week has been added, without any notification from the supplier. There is a bit of a story with this, so I'll give all the info I can:

In 2014, she got ina bit of a financial mess. She didnt pay her energy nills for quite a long time, and ran up a debt of over £1000.

She then moved to a new property. She called the company, and set up a DD for her gas, and the electricity is on a prepay meter. She discussed repayment of the debt, and agreed to pay an extra £100 per month until the debt was clear. There have been no issues with repayment, and this has come out every month.

The electric meter was inherited from the previous owner. She called the company involved, they reset the meter and sent out a new key. She was shocked by how much she was paying, but assumed it was normal on a prepaid meter. Then someone came to read the meter, and said there was a debt on the meter. She called the company again, who assured her that there was no debt, and the old bill was being settled by direct debit.

She has noticed that a couple of times a week, her credit disappears over night. Whilst she is sleeping, £3-£4 per night disappears. She isnt in the habit of leaving things on standby so it would be the fridge, and maybe a phone charger left on.

Now, the previous owner was in all manner of debt. He has regular bailiff letters etc coming, and I am fairly certain he would have had a debt on the meter when he lived here. We cant remember who he said his supplier was.

I have spoken to the company at great length this afternoon - 3 and a half hours to be exact. I have a complaint manager calling me back in the morning.

I have established that the £10 per week was added to the meter in April this year, so it doesnt explain where her credit was going before that! This situation has been going on for over a year.

My questions are

1, Can I insist that they repay the £10 per week in cash, as there was never an agreement for them to take it in the first place, and we had an agreed repayment plan that we had stuck to?

2, Is it at all possible that another supplier is claiming credit from this meter to repay the previous tenents debt? I spoke to one chap who said it was unusual, but entirely possible, and someone else who said it couldnt happen. What do you guys think?

Apologies if there is any info missing, if you need any other details to assist, please let me know.

Many thanks in advance

CashStrapped

As far as I am aware, the key is specific to the individual. So if you set-up a new account and as long as you had new keys sent out, then the key will only contain data from your mothers account.

Many people make the mistake of using the existing keys in a propety and take an age to set up a new account. In the mean time they are paying off the previous occupents debt. However, from what you say, this has not happened in your case.

I do not see how debt from an old key can get taken of a new key.

Just for clarity, are the company your mum got into debt with in the previous property the same company who provide the gas and electric in the new property with the keys?

Is there not the chance your mum has also run up a debt onth egas and electric in this property using the key cards?

A few of our resident meter experts on here may be able to help looking though all the meter menu options.

jackster123

Thanks for your reply.

It is the same company in both properties, because she didnt realise she could change whilst in debt with a supplier. I have since discovered that as the debt is now under £500 she is free to leave.

Interestingly, I have now found out that the old tenenat was also with the same company.

She says that she doesnt remember ever being sent a new key. She spoke to them on the phone, and was given a code to take into the shop, she says she thinks she was told to go to a specific paypoint retailer, but she cant remember what it was for. I assume this was to change the account, but I cant be certain!

Could this be the issue?

Sorry for the gaps in the story, I know it doesnt make it easy to advise when bits are missing, and I appreciate you taking the time to help.

CashStrapped

If she was not sent a new key, it is possible that the key she is using is the old account holders i.e the previous occupier.

You did seem certain she had been sent a new key in your initial post.

If she rang up and set-up a new account she should have got a new one.

If she has some how continued to use the old key, it may have the debt on it from the previous account.

You need to go through the options on the meter with the key in it. There are multiple screens. One of them will tell you what the level of debt is on that specific key.

jackster123

Apologies, she was pretty certain that was the chain of events, until I asked her again. Now she cant remember. She does recall going into a paypoint with the old key, but genuinely cant remember whether a new one was eventually sent or not.

The debt on the meter currently reads 11.92. Now, I know that they have added this mystery tenner, and that there are charges for having the meter.

This has all changed since 13th April 2016, when they added this £10. I have no idea what it was before that. She tells me that when someone came to read the meter, he said it was showing a debt, and that she should call them to ask why. She says she did call them, only to be told there was no debt!

Its all very confusing to be honest.

It does make sense though, that there was some type of debt attached, as that would explain the outrageous amount she has been topping up by, and why money is simply disppearing over night. If there was a debt attached to this meter, is hasnt been reducing her outstanding balance, so where has the money been going?

I dont really trust them to be honest with me when they call back tomorrow, and I wondered if she has been paying this other chaps debt for the lsat year, can this be proven, and if so how?!

I think I might just have to wait and see what they say. Its all a bit confusing!

spiro

What was her original debt for, gas or electricity? Most suppliers allocate the debt to the fuel it was incurred for so if it was electicity I would expect that to be recovered via the meter, if it was gas via the DD, it is was both then via both. They do this because if they don't it causes issues around when they can object to someone switching supplier for a single fuel.

[Deleted User]

OP, first of all you need to understand the meter.There are standing charges and these will show as debt on the first screen, screen A. It is approx £1.92 a week with BG and this can build up as debt if the meter is nt being credited too often. True debt is shown on screen S and T will show the weekly repayment. You can only see these screens on the meter with the key inserted. £10 a week is about right for as much as £1000. The suppliers can apply between £3.50 and £16 a week and it is open to negotiation if its set too high.
You do not need a new key to wipe off previous tenants data but the key needs to be recoded if a new key is`nt posted out

davietich

Hello Jackster, I am retired from the metering dept. for a couple of years now but I doubt things have changed - Basically an operator from the company has to call to wipe the debt from a meter as the standard household key even when programmed at a paypoint etc. could not clear debt as the suppliers did not want debt erroneously cleared from meters. Also in my experience quite a few people who moved home inherited the previous occupiers debt and we were sent to wipe down the meter but occasionally this was overlooked. In the past all change of tenancies were visited to set up meter accurately for the new occupier but this was stopped to cut costs�� You say someone from the company called to reset the meter but it appears he did not remove the debt as the company say there is no debt on the meter but there is!!!
(£10 a week debt set on the meter should come off your Mam's credit hourly at approx. 6p per hour - £1.42 per day)
Basically I would demand they send an op. to your mother to clear the debt and refund her the overpayment or offset it against any current outstanding amount she has. If they don't play ball I would contact Ofgem. Kindest regards, Davie

SwanJon

davietich wrote: »

Hello Jackster, I am retired from the metering dept. for a couple of years now but I doubt things have changed - Basically an operator from the company has to call to wipe the debt from a meter as the standard household key even when programmed at a paypoint etc. could not clear debt

Depending on the supplier it has changed more than you think.
There is no need for anyone to physically come around to reset a meter - it can all be done through the key - either a new key that has been programmed before use, or a message sent on the old key. It might be that some suppliers haven't moved to this model yet.

You don't need to be sent a key - some suppliers have an agreement with the shop to reprogram old keys, or have a stock of new keys. Your mother would need a code for the programming either way.

On an electricity meter the weekly payment is recovered from the credit on the front of the meter at 1% every 101 minutes (1% of 7 days). So in this case 10p every 101 minutes (roughly equivalent to 6p/hr as above). However, this wouldn't explain the £3-4 overnight*. Check screen T does say £10 (press the blue button to scroll through the screens, as sacsquacco says you'll need the key in to get to R, S & T).

Every payment that your mother has made will have been linked to her meter and so hit either her account, or the previous tenant's. The supplier can easily allocate these to the right account if the latter based on the date of payment and the date your mother moved in, so no money has been lost. If she has paid more than she has used, then this can either be returned or offset from the balance.

It is possible that when agreeing the payment of the old balance, only the gas was included in the extra payment, and they took a while to put the electricity balance onto the meter. It's been a while since I've come across it, but there was resistance form ofgem in putting debt from one fuel on the other (could lead to not being able to switch gas because of an electricity debt for example).

You could write/email/call the supplier to ask them to clarify exactly what happened to the balances from the old house when your mother moved. Push comes to shove ask for a statement of account to see all the transactions.


* If there is no electric heating, £30 use a week seems high to me, so have a look around and see if there is anything that might be causing it. A diary can help - each day take details from the meter (credit showing, meter reading), any top ups and anything different about that day (e.g. used tumble drier).

If the balance on the electricity account is less than £500 you can switch suppliers (if the new supplier is willing to take on the debt). This is only available for prepayment, so the gas balance will need to be cleared before switching. Once the electricity balance has cleared look to swap the meter and pay by DD.

footyguy

jackster123 wrote: »

Good evening,

I hope you're all well? A bit of a plea for help, as this really isnt something I know much about...

I was chatting to my mum earlier, and the subject of her prepaid electric came up. She has been paying upwards of £40 per week, which seemed a bit excessive, so I thought I would investigate.

On checking the meter, it seems a debt of £10 per week has been added, without any notification from the supplier. There is a bit of a story with this, so I'll give all the info I can:

In 2014, she got ina bit of a financial mess. She didnt pay her energy nills for quite a long time, and ran up a debt of over £1000.

She then moved to a new property. She called the company, and set up a DD for her gas, and the electricity is on a prepay meter. She discussed repayment of the debt, and agreed to pay an extra £100 per month until the debt was clear. There have been no issues with repayment, and this has come out every month.

The electric meter was inherited from the previous owner. She called the company involved, they reset the meter and sent out a new key. She was shocked by how much she was paying, but assumed it was normal on a prepaid meter. Then someone came to read the meter, and said there was a debt on the meter. She called the company again, who assured her that there was no debt, and the old bill was being settled by direct debit.

She has noticed that a couple of times a week, her credit disappears over night. Whilst she is sleeping, £3-£4 per night disappears. She isnt in the habit of leaving things on standby so it would be the fridge, and maybe a phone charger left on.

Now, the previous owner was in all manner of debt. He has regular bailiff letters etc coming, and I am fairly certain he would have had a debt on the meter when he lived here. We cant remember who he said his supplier was.

I have spoken to the company at great length this afternoon - 3 and a half hours to be exact. I have a complaint manager calling me back in the morning.

I have established that the £10 per week was added to the meter in April this year, so it doesnt explain where her credit was going before that! This situation has been going on for over a year.

My questions are

1, Can I insist that they repay the £10 per week in cash, as there was never an agreement for them to take it in the first place, and we had an agreed repayment plan that we had stuck to?

2, Is it at all possible that another supplier is claiming credit from this meter to repay the previous tenents debt? I spoke to one chap who said it was unusual, but entirely possible, and someone else who said it couldnt happen. What do you guys think?

Apologies if there is any info missing, if you need any other details to assist, please let me know.

Many thanks in advance

Oh dear, what a long story; hopefully I can provide much shorter advice

If your mother is at all concerned about where her money is going, she should contact her supplier.

Don't worry too much what the meter says, other than the actual meter reading.
You see, a PPM is only really an alternative method of payment.

So your mother should request a statement. Most suppliers produce these every year, although I feel sure che could probably get a new one now if she explains the problem to the supplier.

That statement should show, just like anyone else's bill/statement:
(a) the credit made (i.e. the top ups purchased)
(b) the energy consumed, and so the cost according to the tariff

In addition, as it is a PPM, there may also be a repayment of an accrued debt. This total debt should be shown, and the payments towards it if applicable.

That then leaves a balance (which hopefully should be about the same as the credit on the meter if your mother provides an up to date meter reading)

So if there is a debt being collected, it will be shown on the statement. If you mother denies any knowledge of such debt, then that will be the place to then question the supplier further over it.

Well, not that short a response after all, but hopefully fully comprehensive and easy to follow

[Deleted User]

Good stuff from footyguy as usual but OP in the long run you must convince your Mum to rid her self of a prepayment meter.whatever it takes she should be getting a credit meter on a fixed tariff direct debit .The costs are a whopping 35% to 40% cheaper and the gap has been widening for fixed direct debit credit meters. It can be done and there are ways around getting the meter taken out and switched to credit meters.