Prepayment meter debt cleared but not told

oxiteh

Hi

Had a long running battle years ago with EDF about a huge bill given to me after they'd failed to read my meter which was outside the house and accessible for several years. They eventually agreed to half the bill because they had not fulfilled their legal requirement of reading the meter every two years.

The outstanding balance was too big for me to pay and though I paid off a chunk of it when i could they said it was made too late and installed a pre-payment meter loaded with the remaining debt.

A few weeks ago, when putting my card into the meter, the reading flashed up 'battery fail'. In the process of finding out the number of the company to call to come and fix it I happened to ask the customer services rep at EDF how much debt was left on the meter as every now and then putting the card in would still say 'such and such amount paid for debt'.

She informed me that the debt had been cleared in 2008, and the message I was getting on the meter was referring to when the credit had run out but the daily standing charge had still been deducted.

It struck me as odd that in the last eight years I have had no confirmation from the company about the debt having been cleared, giving me the opportunity to reinstall a normal meter, and therefore paying less for my gas. Even if you allow for an opportunity after a while to pay a deposit to get one reinstalled I was very annoyed that I had never been informed of the debt being cleared.

You may think that I should have been in contact with the company to find out much earlier on, but as the meter kept telling me some money was being taken still for the debt I naturally assumed that I was still paying it off. The amounts ( I now realise that were for standing order charges after the gas credit had run out) were so small that I assumed I must be nearing the end of the debt which is why I asked the customer service agent.

What I would like to know is, am I in any position to claim back the difference in the higher tariff I will have been using considering that at no time over the last eight years have i been told that I am debt free?

Kind regards

Alun

[Deleted User]

Its odd that you never realised the remaining debt and the weekly repayment rate is all there for you to view on the meter itself. Gas meter debt/repay rate is on screens 26/27,electric meter is on screens S and T. You must have seen all the years of E for estimate against the bills which got you behind in the first place. I think you have done extremely well in getting EDF to cut your debts by half when you found out about the 2 year rule (BG by the way it is 5 years ) and I think you have reached the limit of any more freebies from the supplier.

oxiteh

Ok. Firstly, the meter used to be inside the house, and i gave them regular readings, because they never called to read it - and paid the bills. Then, they (the company that actually own the meters) came to put the meter outside the house, as they did with all the houses on the close as part of the buildings being modernised (and I suspect, to make it easier for meter readings to be taken without the tenant being in) so I didn't bother giving readings anymore because the meter was in a place they could access easily, and quite frankly, I've got better things to do than do someone else's job for them.

When I got bills after this I didn't read them properly, just looked at the amount and paid them, not particularly diligent I'll admit that, but then you're having a go at me for not being diligent and suggesting that they aren't culpable in some way when they have clearly have been. Had i noticed they were estimated bills, or had they bothered to make sure the meter had been read properly, then none of this would have happened. I made an administrative error and they made a legal one. So, you're wrong, it was every two years, and they admitted this - otherwise they wouldn't have cut the bill, they were legally in the wrong for not reading it. It's not just to read the meter, they have to check them to see if they're working properly and to check that they are safe - or perhaps you think it should be me who is making those checks? In fact, they lied about the final meter reading saying it had come from me when I hadn't given them a reading. Any purposeful manipulation of information was at their door, not mine.

My meter shows the amount of credit on the card, and the amount of credit in the meter - and tells me how much debt is being taken out of my credit. Nothing more, other than a button to press if gas appliances are on.

In your haste to imply I'm a scrounger, you fail to address the point that I have been paying extra for my gas than I have needed to for eight years, which is hardly the act of someone who is trying to screw the company. Why would I do that?

The fact of the matter is, I should have been informed of the debt being cleared so that I could consider cheaper options and I wasn't. I had no idea how much had been paid off because I didn't add up the debt taken off the credit every time I put the card in. Add to that the fact that it was still giving me the same message of 'x amount accepted for debt', why would I assume it had been cleared? You don't continue to pay off a loan from bank for years and years (and effectively I have been paying over what I owed them by being on a higher charge rate) without some form of statement being presented to you to clarify your balance. All I got from EDF was a yearly letter to tell me how much gas credit I'd put in the machine, or a circular to tell me about the company.

I am justifiably annoyed that they have happily taken more money from me than they have need to.


So, thanks for the reply but save your accusations for someone who deserves it.

CashStrapped

I think the problem is that in both cases, the situation could have been avoided by you being a bit more diligent in your financial affairs. I am not saying the energy company is blameless in this regard. Yet, you seem to be putting all the responsibility at their door, when in fact, you have to take some responsibility.

People who submit meter readings and pay their bills on time do not get a discount for paying on time and therefore may feel a bit aggrieved/frustrated that you got a discount accruing a debt.

The initial debt that accrued was energy that you did use. Their final bill (I assume) was correctly calculated. So you already received a substantial discount on this. Regardless of their failure to check the meter every 2 years, you received a large discount on energy that you did use.

One would expect that after such an event one would keep a close eye on the debt that is being paid off (ringing or checking on-line account). Yet, again you put all the blame on the supplier for not informing you that you have paid off what you owe them.

I can see both sides of the situation but you have a portion of blame to take in letting things get out of hand.

Your best option is to raise a complaint and if unsatisfied take it to the ombudsman.

In the future, I would look at being a bit more diligent.

oxiteh

If you read my last post, you will no doubt notice that I have admitted that I should have been more diligent - in fact you use the wording I use myself. So I am not putting all the blame at their door, but here's the thing -

I am allowed to be a crap human being, and as a crap human being I am not in a position to charge money for something that someone else needs to keep them warm or cook food for themselves - if I did that, I'd no doubt be in prison for neglecting my responsibilities.

As one of the 'big five', EDF have a legal responsibility in providing a safe service and one that does not deliberately rip off its customers. In return I have a legal responsibility to pay for the usage of their product. I do not have a legal responsibility to notify them of meter readings.

Part of their service is to provide accurate billing, and if they can see that estimates have been going on for some time, and the customer has paid those bills in full and in time, it is their responsibility to get an accurate reading, not the customers.

I am a council tenant and my property is checked every year to check that the gas appliances are safe, and that I'm the only person living here. Can you imagine them not doing that for eight years? Would I be responsible for dying of carbon monoxide fumes if the detector was faulty?

No, it's part of a legal contract that they are obliged to adhere to. I give them money for it.

So yes, I'm crap, disorganised, busy, and care not to spend my entire life checking to see if all the companies I pay thousands of pounds a year to are keeping their side of the bargain.

oxiteh

And with regards to the clearing of the debt, had the meter told me it was clear of debt instead of repeatedly telling me it was 'accepting X amount for debt', then yes, I may well have thought of phoning them to install a normal meter.

CashStrapped

I did read your first post. I could see that you said you should have been more diligent.

We are all, at some point, crap disorganised human beings. I can see both side of the situation as I stated.

As I said, you are best off raising a formal complaint in writing and ensure they adhere to the timescales. If the solution is not to your liking then take it to the ombudsman.

What I tried to point out is that you already received a deduction in what you owed for the energy you used. Based on that, you have already had a very good outcome.

Looking for futher compensation for an issue which is partly your fault (however confuising the display on the meter is) may be pushing it.

However it is up to you with regard to the complaint and the ombudsman. It may indeed go in your favour.

I do agree that pre-payment meters are nasty things in any guise. The tariff policy, untill recently, was bordering criminal.

I also suggest asking for a smart meter. That should in theory resolve all the issues in the future. Ensure it is a 2nd genration smart meter as these are compatible with various suppliers.

SwanJon

sacsquacco wrote: »

Its odd that you never realised the remaining debt and the weekly repayment rate is all there for you to view on the meter itself. Gas meter debt/repay rate is on screens 26/27,electric meter is on screens S and T.

oxiteh wrote: »

My meter shows the amount of credit on the card, and the amount of credit in the meter - and tells me how much debt is being taken out of my credit. Nothing more, other than a button to press if gas appliances are on.

Sacsquacco is right - the meter does have loads more information that you were seeing - for one reason or another you were unaware of how to find this out. This would have let you see exactly when the balance was cleared.

However, you must have known the size of the balance initially, and how much was being recovered each week - a quick bit of rough maths would have given you a date to check - e.g. balance is £1,000, weekly payment is £5 - takes about 4 years to clear. That would have been the time to call in.

To be told every time you topped up that a debt was being recovered you must have been in Emergency credit every time.

[Deleted User]

To see all the screens on prepayment meters the card or key has to be inserted. This is private information so its only viewable by the occupier. The OP has done very well out of EDF to halve the debt and you have actually proved what I have been saying about this supplier for years. They totally ignore OFGEMS rules about accessing meters at least every 2 years and so does Scottish Power. Its cheaper for them to just ignore it. Well in your case they have been caught out and had to pay you off. You may be able to use their laziness in meter reading to further benefit by threatening them with an Ombudsman ruling .Why the meter was nt read in an outside box is a mystery. All meter readers love outside boxes,, any big dogs hanging around your house ?

oxiteh

No big dogs, no difficulty in access.

With regards to me knowing what the debt was, yes, I knew how much it was, but I didn't even think of totting up the percentage of the credit they were taking from me every time I put the card in, as I assumed they would write to me or email me to let me know it had been cleared. Knowing that I was paying off the debt at their percentage was enough for me.

I think it's a fairly common thing for people's credit to run out, save for checking the damned thing all the time. So yes, it was a common occurrence that the gas would stop coming through, resulting in a trip to the shop to top up the card, and then a message would come up saying 'x amount accepted for debt', and that was without using ANY emergency credit.

As I explained in my first post, the customer service rep said that would have been a daily standing charge that it was taking from a meter with no credit in it, not an indication of the initial debt.

It's because of this that I'm annoyed with them for not sending me a letter saying the debt had been cleared.

I was never told I could find out how much debt was in the meter, so why would I think I could have done - I still wouldn't know how to do it and if the rep hadn't told me otherwise I would still think that there was debt left because of the debt accepted messages I get. So yes, I would have got in touch with them ages ago if I hadn't kept seeing the message, or failing that, expected a statement to tell me.

S0litaire

With the Gas pre-payment card meters you need to have the card in the slot and do a LONG press on the "A" button, till it beeps, to get to the extra screens.

It's something that took me a while to find out 'after' I lost the small pamphlet they give out with the meters telling you all this... >_<