Help Problems with Flow Energy switch

andy_poulton

HELP please.

It has become a nightmare. Never had unresolved issues before.
[lucky me!]
I Switched through CEC. Then after asking them had a house move three months later.

So many things have gone wrong.

The set up two accounts and two direct debits for the OLD house.
The could not find my new address so used a neighbours.
They could not set up the switch as the meters were not recognised on a data base.
The under training new adviser got it all wrong and a month later had to start again.

They took over the readings for my new house 10th may [Should have been 31st March]
Now they say the start reading for electricity is in dispute by 248 units.
Gas is okay
They say Scottish power provided it.
They did not.
I provided both to both suppliers when I moved and 10th May as requested.
I did to Scottish and have a final bill and both/all the energy readings were agreed by Flow Supervisor and submitted to Flow and Flow to Scottish power.
E mails to and from Flow and bills to prove this.

They stated will use this 'disputed' figure as it is 'below 250 which is in tolerance for industry standards' and credit me with £2.

I have tried to tell them that 248 units at .1183 pence per unit is nearly a months supply and nearly £30. They will not listen and talk over me. They said that figure is wrong and decimal points wrong etc etc. Whatever.

BUT 250 units at about 10 p a unit is always more than a credit for £2
They are adamant.

I escalated it to a leader then a supervisor. Three against one now and no hope. They all agree I have to accept there findings.

I did not switch to be ripped off or bills escalted over this when I have done everything correct and agreed, correct, and original readings.

Help, where now please? Any advice gratefully received.

[PS credit for switch DID come through 2 weeks ago from February.]

Cheers Andrew

molerat

The difference is within industry standards and goes through and independent validation process but both suppliers must agree and use the same reading. Are they doing this ? Silly that the validator knows best over your real reading but those are the rules and there is little point fighting it as you will have to get all parties to agree. Scottish Power have to use the reading provided and validated by the gaining supplier. It looks like SP may have used the reading you supplied which they should not have done.

andy_poulton

Thanks for the prompt reply.

No both suppliers are not using the same figures.
Scottish were happy with the supplied readings for 10th May and final billed me accordingly. [They did say that they reserved the right to RE bill if the Flow supplied figures did not match mine. They sent me the final invoice as closed bill with same agreed figures]

Flow are using a reading that even predates what I started with, with Scottish. [It was a show home and used electricity/gas prior to me moving in. When I bought it we all took the readings together site, sales and me]

They did not believe or wish to listen to that either.
Just kept on about industry standards allow them to bill this figure.

Thanks Andrew

System

andy_poulton wrote: »

Thanks for the prompt reply.

No both suppliers are not using the same figures.
Scottish were happy with the supplied readings for 10th May and final billed me accordingly. [They did say that they reserved the right to RE bill if the Flow supplied figures did not match mine. They sent me the final invoice as closed bill with same agreed figures]

Flow are using a reading that even predates what I started with, with Scottish. [It was a show home and used electricity/gas prior to me moving in. When I bought it we all took the readings together site, sales and me]

They did not believe or wish to listen to that either.
Just kept on about industry standards allow them to bill this figure.

Thanks Andrew

Contact your NEW supplier. It has a Supply Licence obligation to manage all aspects of the switch. If you are trying to deal with both suppliers then you are complicating the problem. As said above, all meter readings are passed to a third-party for review and adjustment if necessary ( some transfers do not go through on the planned date and some customers have been known to lie if it makes them a couple of £s). The industry has agreed procedures for dealing with these issues. In the first instance, the two suppliers have to discuss and agree opening/closing readings. It doesn't matter whether these are some kWhs away from the figures that you gave. If the disputed figures are extreme (e.g. more than 125C3Ms for gas) a formal dispute can be raised which can take up to 12 weeks to resolve.

Speak to your NEW supplier and remind them of the obligation placed on them by their Supply Licence.

PS. I had an issue last year when my gas transfer was delayed. The two suppliers agreed a meter reading that was 100C3Ms below what was showing on my meter. It took me 31/2 months to reach this figure. I didn't pay for the same energy twice but I was paid £2.39 to cover the difference in the contract price for 110C3Ms.

andy_poulton

Thanks Hengus.

I will try again to speak and remind.

Cheers Andrew

System

If you are really bored, this appears to typical of the arcane procedures that the energy industry follows.

https://www.mrasco.com/mrasco_model/supporting_docs/MAP08.doc

It has always struck me as strange that they do not have a simple procedure of 'discuss and agree' or let us send out a meter reader and 'agree to use the reading/s provided.'

Of course, if we ever get SMETS2- capable SMART meters then this problem goes away.

NorskMann

• Flow are correct that it is not possible for them to dispute the reading, as the variance between the D86 (the reading that has been agreed by Scottish Power and Flow) is below 250kwh, which means that the variance to the customer should be extremely minimal, and with some suppliers, a disputed read (which is a request from the new supplier – flow- to Scottish Power to change the agreed close/open reads), will automatically be rejected.
• ScottishPower should have billed you to the D86 reading, unless they have agreed (and given my experience with Scottish Power, I doubt it) to actually contact Flow and do a customer read dispute.
• In my experience, and noting that I don’t work for Flow or SP whatsoever, it is generous for FLOW to have given you the £2. Not many suppliers would do this.
• As your with ScottishPower (and I would be commenting differently if you were with a different supplier – e.g: E.ON who have amazing back-office functions or SSE), I would suspect the best way forward will be for you to call SP and ensure that you are billed to the reading that Flow has billed you to.

This said, I do believe your customer experience clearly has not been good with Flow. Have you considered looking for a cheaper or more efficient supplier?

Note; I do not work for any of the energy companies named :P

andy_poulton

Thanks for the kind reply Norskmann.
I am sure you are correct.
I cannot move without £60 penalty as I have just agreed to switch then had a move.
This is part of the switch. From the document sent me by Hengus both suppliers must agree a figure for the switch.

Things took another turn for the worse. The sent a bill out of the blue and have used the START readings same as SP from 31st March for BOTH gas and electricity.

I have now been fully double billed! from 31st March to 10th May.

Agreeing to switch I was not aware that 'Industry Standards' allowed this. I am now paying for 13 months energy for 12 months supply [Direct debit is £46 a month, this last month £150 to two suppliers.]
Surely that is not Industry Standards for a switch?

I contacted FLOW again 6 times Wednesday got the same replies 'Within Industry standards'.

No matter how I described the 'Double Billing and the double costs.

I have written to Andrew Beasley the Operations Manager at HQ and sent it recorded delivery with all the evidence and bills etc.

Andrew Cambridge complaints and customer services manager replied with a brief message on the phone the next day. 'It is fixable'

He phoned me yesterday. Apologised for all the errors and the staff not deviating from the Industry Standard script and seeing the wider problem/picture. A young company with 100's of new staff and a training issue listening to all the recorded calls.

They will either use the proper readings or credit my account from the opening read with SP to the reads supplied for 10th May
Plus a £40 credit for trouble and to honour a previous credit for trouble not added to account.

New bill sent out next week some time.

I will update soon.

Cheers Andy

NorskMann

Hello Andy

Thanks for updating this thread. Glad to here that Flow has somewhat resolved the issue at hand.

Industry standards are that you are always never billed twice for the same Kwh, so for instance, if your close reading with SP is 123456, then your open read with flow should be 123456. This must be exactly as per the D86. By SP closing your account to a read not agreed with Flow or on the D86, they are somewhat to blame. If they've (Flow or SP) used an estimate to open/close your account, and there is a 250 KWH difference (e.g: you've paid to much to Scottish Power, because they may have closed your account on too high an estimated read), then it can be corrected. This is because, the difference is not the KWH price, but the difference between SP and Flows KWH price. E.g: SP - 14p per KWH, Flow 13p.

This probably doesn't make any sense, and I know there should be improvements to industry, but it's extremely difficult to implement changes without government or financial backing.

Have a good weekend