Park Direct UK - PCN for parking at my own flat

New_Liz

Hi all,

Thank you for taking the time to read my post, any help you can offer would be great as I really am getting quite upset about this but as I am convinced the ticket is unfair I am determined to fight it.

I have read through the other posts - there was a lot of very useful information but nothing that matched my case I think - apologies if I have missed something.

Facts;
- I live in a rented flat with an allocated parking space.

- We I moved into the flat in Feb 2015 I was given a residents permit by my estate agent and told to display this permit (no instructions were given about how to fill in the permit or about any changes that need to be made.

- The valid to date on the permit was blank.

- The address printed on the permit was for my flat.

- There was a car registration number entered on the permit in pen but it was badly faded by the sun. As there was no instruction to do so and as it did not occur to me in the hubbub of moving in I did not enter my car's registration number.

- I have faithfully displayed this permit and used my space without issue for 15 months.

- On the 23rd May I was issued with a PCN by Park Direct UK (PDUK) for having an invalid permit

- No instruction has been given by any party (est agent, management company or Parking Direct) regarding what constitutes a "valid" permit.

- The instructions on the back of the permit were "This permit is not transferable and must be returned to us if the vehicle is sold or disposed of or the holder ceases to reside at their present address. You must display your valid permit so that all the details on the face are readily seen from the nearside front windscreen. We will not accept any liability in respect of loss or damage to any vehicle or its contents whilst parked in the location to where this permit applies.If this permit is not displayed in the correct manner as stated above your vehicle will be clamped and charged a release fee."

- PDUK have told me that my permit was invalid because it was not showing the registration of the vehicle displaying it. My vehicle was parked in the bay for my flat and the address of my flat was clearly visible on the permit.

- PDUK have advised my est agent (I have a copy of this email) "The registration on the permit does not match the vehicle, if they put a registration on the permit then it has to be the correct registration that the permit is shown in. As you know a visitors permit does not need the registration filled in but if the resident does fill it in then its an invalid permit if put in a different vehicle"
This is rather confusing but it appears that PDUK are saying the permit can be used but with no registration number filled in at all, but if the registration is filled in it must be for the car displaying the permit - so there are at least two ways in which the permit can be valid.

- I have raised this with my est agent who have sympathised but offered no help. The management company were initially helpful but now appear to be ignoring my emails. The management company have sent me a new permit - there were no instructions sent about how it should be filled in and they have not been able to answer my queries about what constitutes a valid permit. They have told me they have sent my queries to PDUK (over a week ago now) but there has no response yet - I also requested at the time all the T&C's for using the residents car park, again this had to be sent to PDUK as apparently they are completely and solely responsible for setting the parking policy.
The only instruction received was on the back of the new permit: "You must display your valid permit so that all the details are readily seen from the front windscreen. This permit is not transferable and must be returned to us if the vehicle is sold/disposed of or you no longer have the right to park at this location. A PCN will be issued if you display a faded permit a permit completed in pencil and photocopied permits are not accepted. Please ensure you use this permit as stated above as failure to do so may result in this vehicle being issued with a Parking charge notice. The onus is on the driver to clearly display a valid parking permit and park in accordance with the terms of parking. If this permit is not displayed in accordance with the terms as stated above and a PCN is issued it will not be cancelled."

- There are signs from PDUK displayed in the residents car park,I think they are very out of date but their working is;
""WARNING controlled parking private property
Unauthorised vehicles strictly no stopping or waiting
No commercial vehicles /LGV allowed (this has been pasted on and is not part of the original sign)
Terms of parking: vehicles stopping or waiting on this land not displaying a valid parking permit and a road tax disc or parked outside or a designated parking area (where applicable) will be issued with a parking charge notice immediately by a Park Direct UK attendant or surveillance camera at a charge of £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days of the notice served date. "
The notice also says that PDUK are an approved operator of BPA - they are NOT. The BPA confirmed to me today that as of the 6th May 2016 PDUK had left them and were now members of the IPC.


Current state of affairs;
I wrote immediately to PDUK (posted 24th May) to appeal the ticket - I had not seen the post about waiting 21 days and in my panic I jumped the gun a bit - the text of my letter is below;
"I am writing to formally challenge the above Parking Charge Notice.

On the above date my vehicle was issued with a Parking Charge Notice for the reason of “Parked in a permit holders only area and failing to display a valid permit”.

In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur. The vehicle in question was parked in the designated bay for the above address, 99 West Dock, and was displaying the parking permit issued by my estate agent which clearly states the right of the vehicle displaying that permit to park in the allocated space for that address. I have and am willing to provide photographic evidence of this fact.

Furthermore, the Parking Charge Notice states that the time of issue was 1.22am on the 23rd May 2016. This is factually incorrect as when I attended my vehicle at 8.30am on the above date there was no notice present. If you dispute this fact please provide evidence confirming the time of issue. Please also provide the photographic evidence you claim to have obtained for the above notice.

As per the my above statement I have contacted my estate agent in order to obtain further evidence of the validity of my permit and I have also written to CS2 to make them aware of this situation, and to challenge your authority to issue such notices or bring any kind of legal action on their behalf."

There are some obvious mistakes in that letter now I realise, and of course PDUK rejected my appeal. They stated the following;
"The vehicle was parked in a permit holders only area and this vehicle failed to display a valid parking permit. You were appealing on the grounds that you had a valid parking permit on display at the time of the contravention. However, the reason why the parking permit was deemed invalid is because the registration number on the permit does not match the vehicles registration number. "
They go on to say that sympathise but the fact remains that a breach occurred and they must up holder the PCN. They have given me until the middle of June to pat £60 or the end of June to pay £100.


Questions:
!. From my POV it is clear that this was a purely opportunistic move on their part - especially after 15 months of using this permit and I wish to fight it. However, Have I already shot myself in the foot?
2. Can I still send the IPC members letter on the Newbies thread as a final "I reject your claim and I will not pay letter" or would I be baiting them to take me to court?
3. From everything I have read it does not seem worth raising an "independent" appeal through the IPC IAS scheme - Is this still the general opinion?
4. I'm really worried that they may take me to court - I work in finance and a CCJ could cost me my job. But I would hope any reasonable person would agree that there was no real breach as without any T&C's (which I still can't get hold of) there can be no breach of contract. A second opinion on this would be welcome?
5. I have read the IPC code of conduct about signage (schedule 1) and it seems to me that PDUK do not meet the requirements;
They do not identify themselves as "the creditor"
They do not state that if the charge remains unpaid for 28 days after issue then an application will be made to the DVLA for the Keepers details.
Is it worth complaining about this either in any letter to PDUK or to the IPC directly?

I realise this is a very long post, but as I said I am really worried about this, and I wanted to present all the details as well as I could. I have tried to do my own research before coming here but any help would be very, very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Half_way

Ok, but the key all important question tat you have overlooked is what does your lease/rental say about displaying a permit?, you say you have an allocated space who allocated to it you and how?

If you have a right to use the space then why are you displaying a permit?

Coupon-mad

If this permit is not displayed in the correct manner as stated above your vehicle will be clamped and charged a release fee.

WOW. Clamping has been illegal since 2012!

I work in finance and a CCJ could cost me my job.

Lucky then that you can't just 'get a CCJ' unless you ignore court papers, which you wouldn't, you would defend with our assistance and there would not even be a CCJ if you lose at a hearing, you know. People who lose at small claims and then pay up when the Judge tells them to, have NO effect on credit rating because the judgment is not added to the register. It leaves no mark at all.

Amazing how many people who work in finance don't know this.

Is it worth complaining about this either in any letter to PDUK or to the IPC directly?

No point at all. No point responding again - DO NOT appeal to the IAS.

Come back if they try a small claim and we will assist you through that ride - put it down to 'an experience' and be aware that most cases never go there and if it does you don't just get a CCJ as long as you do not ignore court papers.

There are NO steps to take now except, I would send the managing agent a warning letter that you hold them liable for any loss you suffer, pointing out the issues - and not calling the firm 'Parking Direct' (they are PARK DIRECT):

- the fact there were never any instructions about the permit
- there was never any warning about a 'charge' merely ILLEGAL CLAMPING.
- so you never 'agreed' to pay £100 or any sum at all
- The vehicle was parked in a permit holders only area and you are a permit holder, complying with instructions given (next to nothing)
- no instruction has been given by any party (est agent, management company or Park Direct) regarding what constitutes a "valid" permit.
- no instruction was given that drew your attention to any signage, nothing to tell you that terms applied on a sign that you were 'obliged' to read every time before parking every day, in case it changed!
- your lease/tenancy agreement allocated you a parking space without caveat.
- this is harassment by their agent and you will claim from the managing agent if you are taken to small claims over this ridiculous matter.

Give them a final deadline to get the unfair PCN cancelled. DO NOT send this to PD. This is to put pressure on the Managing Agents.

Umkomaas

Worried about court in the context of a private parking charge? Of the millions of tickets issued each year, fewer than 1% end up at a small claims court hearing and many of them are for multiple ticket cases against an individual. The SCC is not a criminal court, so no guilty/not guilty, no gowns or wigs, no stigma, just an organisation saying, 'You owe me £100' (with their facts), you saying, 'I don't' (with your facts). A Judge will decide.

Cost to PDUK of taking you to court: ~£250-£300, with lots of work to do to get their case together. They have a 50:50 chance of winning:losing.

Cost to you of losing: £100 plus disbursements (the PPC's court filing fee of £25 and the maximum allowed £50 solicitor costs) plus their travel expenses. You have a 50:50 chance of losing:winning.

I'm sure being in finance you can do the calculations. Why would anyone spend up to £300 (with a lot of work) to enter the lottery that is the small claims court, in order to have a 50:50 chance of winning £100?

The likely course of events will be a short storm of (legally toothless) debt collector letters over a few months (see newbies FAQ sticky, post #4, about dealing with these), including a 'Notice of Intended Legal Action' (nothing of the sort - just bluff and bluster), followed by the odd 'reminder' and, as you get near the end of the chain, a 'special discounted offer to settle'.

The beggaration factor is that PDUK have 6 years to pursue you - sorry, but it's a 'ride' you can't get off, unless you pay - no one here will advise this unless a Judge orders you to do so. It's a 'ride' to ride out! A few hassle-factor letters, treat them the same as the emails you get from 'government officials' asking for your bank details in order to receive the fortune bequeathed to you in the will of a Nigerian Prince. The only slight difference - you keep the letters safely until it's all over (standard advice for any letter you get suggesting you owe someone money).

The only letters not to be ignored would be a Letter Before County Court Claim (from PDUK, not from any debt collector) or real court papers.

Oh, by the way, look how often PDUK have chanced their arm at court:

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Park_Direct_UK.html

Do you really think you'll be their first?

fisherjim

"In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur"

The road traffic act does not apply to private property, the only rules that apply are the scumbag PPC made up rules to catch out motorists at every opportunity!

Half_way

the only rules that apply are the scumbag PPC made up rules to catch out motorists at every opportunity!

Almost, the only rules that really apply are the ones in your lease/rental agreement. The lease/rental trumps anything dreamt up by a PPC, and allowing a private profit making business to operate on your land/space is far from reasonable, and will not contribute to the smooth running of the estate.

New_Liz

Hi Half_way,

Thank you for your reply.

My lease is a standard shorthold tenancy agreement that i'm sure my est agent prints out 10 a penny. It does not say anything about parking. The discussion of the parking space allocation was all verbal at the time of moving in - as there was a space with my flat number in and a permit which matched that number to display I did not foresee that anything else would be required.

All I have from my move in date regarding parking is on the inventory which lists "2x parking permits" and then in the agents notes (also on the inventory) it states " new parking permits (1 x permit, 1 x visitors) for national clamps 01/03/2012. CV - AGENT -please see notes relating to parking restrictions at the wharf"

Now I am reading this again there are obvious problems like that neither of the permits I was given were new and the permits were PDUK not National Clamps.

I have had a letter forwarded to me from the est agent today which they had from "directors" at this block of flats stating;
"When XXXX was built, government policy at the time, dictated that all apartments at the time, with the exception of duplexes should have only one parking bay.Thsi was made clear to all prospective purchasers at the time. However, in the intervening period a number of residents, almost exclusively tenants, have attempted to park second vehicles in visitors bays. This is against the terms of the lease and the agreement signed by landlords with Park Direct, the company given responsibility for monitoring parking at XXXX. "

No information is given in this letter about what constitutes a valid permit. it says only;
"It is your responsibility to ensure that your permit is clearly visible at all times through your vehicles windscreen. If your permit is not clearly visible then you will receive a parking ticket. If you sublet your property it is your responsibility to ensure your tenant is provided with their permits."

If I have to take this up with my est agents more aggressively at some point, at present I am trying to keep them on side as they have been very supportive, am I correct in thinking that the onus would be on them to prove they have provided all the necessary information about parking?
Not on me to prove that they have not, as I can't prove a negative.

The last communication I had from the management company was saying I should dispute this with my estate agent. FYI my est agent has advised that they do not have the full terms and conditions of the parking policy and the management company themselves have said that the parking policy is entirely set by PDUK. so surely PDUK are responsible for making all the Ts&Cs of parking available.

New_Liz

Hi Coupon-mad,

Thank you for your reply.

You have said that there is no point in relying to PDUK now they have rejected my appeal. However, should this ever end up in court (very unlikely I know) would it not be better to be able to show that I have engaged with the PDUK and have firmly stated that I do not accept that the ticket is fair or any liability for the charge, etc? (something along the lines of the IPC members letter template in the Newbie's sticky)

Thanks for the advice.

Fruitcake

New_Liz wrote: »

Hi Half_way,

Thank you for your reply.

My lease is a standard shorthold tenancy agreement that i'm sure my est agent prints out 10 a penny. It does not say anything about parking. The discussion of the parking space allocation was all verbal at the time of moving in - as there was a space with my flat number in and a permit which matched that number to display I did not foresee that anything else would be required.

All I have from my move in date regarding parking is on the inventory which lists "2x parking permits" and then in the agents notes (also on the inventory) it states " new parking permits (1 x permit, 1 x visitors) for national clamps 01/03/2012. CV - AGENT -please see notes relating to parking restrictions at the wharf"

Now I am reading this again there are obvious problems like that neither of the permits I was given were new and the permits were PDUK not National Clamps.

I have had a letter forwarded to me from the est agent today which they had from "directors" at this block of flats stating;
"When XXXX was built, government policy at the time, dictated that all apartments at the time, with the exception of duplexes should have only one parking bay.Thsi was made clear to all prospective purchasers at the time. However, in the intervening period a number of residents, almost exclusively tenants, have attempted to park second vehicles in visitors bays. This is against the terms of the lease and the agreement signed by landlords with Park Direct, the company given responsibility for monitoring parking at XXXX. "

No information is given in this letter about what constitutes a valid permit. it says only;
"It is your responsibility to ensure that your permit is clearly visible at all times through your vehicles windscreen. If your permit is not clearly visible then you will receive a parking ticket. If you sublet your property it is your responsibility to ensure your tenant is provided with their permits."

If I have to take this up with my est agents more aggressively at some point, at present I am trying to keep them on side as they have been very supportive, am I correct in thinking that the onus would be on them to prove they have provided all the necessary information about parking?
Not on me to prove that they have not, as I can't prove a negative.

The last communication I had from the management company was saying I should dispute this with my estate agent. FYI my est agent has advised that they do not have the full terms and conditions of the parking policy and the management company themselves have said that the parking policy is entirely set by PDUK. so surely PDUK are responsible for making all the Ts&Cs of parking available.

That's the important bit. Your lease trumps a parking scumpanies made up rules. There appears to be no requirement for you to participate in a permit scheme if it is not in your lease.

Coupon-mad

As you have already appealed there is no point sending a challenge again (and the IPC version of appeal that we recommend, is written like a challenge). Maybe more like the suggestion by the Parking Prankster, but don't get embroiled in protracted comms:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/02/excel-parking-charge-40-to-appeal.html

That link explains PD's view that people should reject the offer of IAS, say why and instead suggest the Consumer Ombudsman. You could also seize the moment to quote your rights under your lease. Looks reasonable if a case later goes to court. Which it won't unless you are the first, as Umkomaas said:

Oh, by the way, look how often PDUK have chanced their arm at court:

http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Park_Direct_UK.html

Do you really think you'll be their first?

New_Liz

Hi all,

My fight with PDUK is progressing (slowly!) and I have continued to pester the management company. Although they refuse to take responsibility they have forwarded me an email from PDUK that states the following (please see below).

Bearing in mind the PDUK have declared my parking permit invalid as the vehicle registration does not match the one shown on the permit, but they make no mention at all of this condition below, have they invalidated their own case?



*************Email contents***************
HI

The site rules are as follows

24/7 20 MINS GRACE PERIOD IN OR OUT OF A BAY
COMMERCIAL VEHICLES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE PARKED OVERNIGHT IN RESIDENTS BAYS OR VISITORS BAYS THIS IS IN THE LEASEE LEASE AGREEMENT
ALLOCATED PARKING PERMITS MUST MATCH BAY NUMBERS
VISITORS PERMITS CAN PARK IN EITHER IN A VISITORS BAY OR RESIDENTS BAY SO LONG AS THE BAY NUMBER MATCHES THE PERMIT

ANY PERMIT THAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ON OR REGISTRATION NUMBERS THAT HAVE BEEN CROSSED OUT RUBBED OUT ETC WOULD MAKE THE PERMIT INVALID.

THANKS

RACHEL
We have moved;
Park Direct Uk Ltd,
1 High Street
Iver
SL0 9ND
Phone: 0845 026 7158
************Email End********************


Thanks for your help again.