Fixed Penalty Notice

karen40

Hi,
I couldn't find any other place to post this, so hope it's ok here.

I received a fixed penalty notice on Saturday 4th June, £100 fine and 3 penalty points for careless/inconsiderate driving. I have 28 days to decide what to do.

I was driving a van and turning left at a junction when a cyclist hit my wing mirror. They cyclist hurt his arm slightly and his bike was fine. He called the police.

I was in shock and felt bad about the cyclist and probably had the I'm so sorry thing going on which I think made it look like I was to blame. After gathering my thoughts and discussing the matter with several people, many of whom are cyclists, I've realised wait a minute I did nothing wrong.

I signalled, I checked my mirror, I saw the cyclist, he was far enough away for me to make the turn. I proceeded to turn and then 'wham'.

I think the cyclist was at fault here because he didn't slow down when I was turning. The Highway Code states:

Road junctions
72
On the left. When approaching a junction on the left, watch out for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left.

I think he must have been cycling quite fast. Is it possible he would have reached the van so fast?

I'm not quite sure why the police issued me with an FPN. The policeman did say it was standard procedure, but he must have actually thought I had committed an offence before he issued it. Is this correct?

As far as I'm aware the cyclist is claiming that I did not indicate. He has a witness, but I have no idea what this witness is saying. I also have a witness who was a passenger in the van and reckons the cyclist must have been going at some speed.

Should I let this go to court? Is it possible for the ticket to be made void if I write to the policeman who issued it? He did tell me to get in touch if I decide not to accept it. It seems utterly unfair to receive a hundred pound fine and 3 penalty points when I committed no offence!

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Redx

my advice is that you try pepipoo forums as they have a specialist forum for these issues, whereas its mainly private company pcn,s on here

Quentin

Pepipoo is the best place for this.

Bear in mind the cyclist presumably had an independent witness whereas your passenger can hardly be said to be independent (and must have been monitoring your driving closely if he witnessed you indicate and was also watching the cyclist closely enough to estimate his speed!,)

Johno100

What's the betting the independent witness is another one of the lycra clad brethren.

Tilt

You havn't made clear where the cyclist was in relation to you when the 'collision' occurred. I'm guessing he passed you on your n/s which is a typical thing for cyclists do when they call it 'filtering'. Obviously if you can show you were indicating left then the cyclist would be at fault.

Mahone1302

karen40 wrote: »

Hi,
I couldn't find any other place to post this, so hope it's ok here.

I received a fixed penalty notice on Saturday 4th June, £100 fine and 3 penalty points for careless/inconsiderate driving. I have 28 days to decide what to do.

I was driving a van and turning left at a junction when a cyclist hit my wing mirror. They cyclist hurt his arm slightly and his bike was fine. He called the police.

I was in shock and felt bad about the cyclist and probably had the I'm so sorry thing going on which I think made it look like I was to blame. After gathering my thoughts and discussing the matter with several people, many of whom are cyclists, I've realised wait a minute I did nothing wrong.

I signalled, I checked my mirror, I saw the cyclist, he was far enough away for me to make the turn. I proceeded to turn and then 'wham'.

I think the cyclist was at fault here because he didn't slow down when I was turning. The Highway Code states:

Road junctions
72
On the left. When approaching a junction on the left, watch out for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left.

I think he must have been cycling quite fast. Is it possible he would have reached the van so fast?

I'm not quite sure why the police issued me with an FPN. The policeman did say it was standard procedure, but he must have actually thought I had committed an offence before he issued it. Is this correct?

As far as I'm aware the cyclist is claiming that I did not indicate. He has a witness, but I have no idea what this witness is saying. I also have a witness who was a passenger in the van and reckons the cyclist must have been going at some speed.

Should I let this go to court? Is it possible for the ticket to be made void if I write to the policeman who issued it? He did tell me to get in touch if I decide not to accept it. It seems utterly unfair to receive a hundred pound fine and 3 penalty points when I committed no offence!

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I'm a police officer, here's my thoughts on the matter:

If the story is as you've explained it, then it appears to me that you've done nothing wrong. If you've turned as the cyclist was already undertaking however, then potentially you have.

Did the police officer witness the incident? If not that I'm not quite sure why he/she has issued you with a FPN for due care - this is not normal process. If the officer attended after the incident, then normal practice would be for an RTC booklet to be completed. This would then be followed up by obtaining accounts from the injured party (cyclist) and any identified witnesses, followed by yourself being interviewed under caution, then a decision being made as to how to proceed.

If the officer has issued a FPN for due care then he needs some evidence to back this up - FPN's should only be issued where sufficient evidence already exists for a charge, as of course an unpaid FPN would instead go to court. Have you been told what evidence the officer has? Was the FPN issued at the scene? If so, was a witness statement taking from the cyclist or anybody else present?

Did you admit to being in the wrong? If so get in touch with the officer and explain the situation again. You could ask to be interviewed about the matter, or you could provide a written statement yourself. It would be wise to consult a solicitor about this. You have the right to free and independent legal advice if you're being interviewed about or reported for an offence, whether at the roadside, in the police station or in your own home.

Were you cautioned when the FPN was issued? (You do not have to say anything etc etc...)
Were you reported for the offence? (You'll be reported for driving without due care etc etc...)

I don't understand why the FPN was issued there and then. If this were me, I certaintly wouldn't be paying up and accepting liability.

Tilt

Mahone1302 wrote: »

I'm a police officer, here's my thoughts on the matter:

If the story is as you've explained it, then it appears to me that you've done nothing wrong. If you've turned as the cyclist was already undertaking however, then potentially you have.

Did the police officer witness the incident? If not that I'm not quite sure why he/she has issued you with a FPN for due care - this is not normal process. If the officer attended after the incident, then normal practice would be for an RTC booklet to be completed. This would then be followed up by obtaining accounts from the injured party (cyclist) and any identified witnesses, followed by yourself being interviewed under caution, then a decision being made as to how to proceed.

If the officer has issued a FPN for due care then he needs some evidence to back this up - FPN's should only be issued where sufficient evidence already exists for a charge, as of course an unpaid FPN would instead go to court. Have you been told what evidence the officer has? Was the FPN issued at the scene? If so, was a witness statement taking from the cyclist or anybody else present?

Did you admit to being in the wrong? If so get in touch with the officer and explain the situation again. You could ask to be interviewed about the matter, or you could provide a written statement yourself. It would be wise to consult a solicitor about this. You have the right to free and independent legal advice if you're being interviewed about or reported for an offence, whether at the roadside, in the police station or in your own home.

Were you cautioned when the FPN was issued? (You do not have to say anything etc etc...)
Were you reported for the offence? (You'll be reported for driving without due care etc etc...)

I don't understand why the FPN was issued there and then. If this were me, I certaintly wouldn't be paying up and accepting liability.

Surely that would depend on whether the OP was indicating or not?

I have seen countless near misses with cyclists undertaking.... err, I mean filtering when the vehicle they have been passing has been indicating to turn left.

Coupon-mad

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/incident-between-cyclist-and-taxi-at-junction-opens-debate-as-to-whos-at-fault-201083

Discuss!

Mahone1302

Tilt wrote: »

Surely that would depend on whether the OP was indicating or not?

I have seen countless near misses with cyclists undertaking.... err, I mean filtering when the vehicle they have been passing has been indicating to turn left.

Yep, hence me saying 'potentially'. This offence isn't a black and white one. Even if the OP was signalling and the cyclist undertook him/her, if the OP knew that the cyclist was undertaking taking him/her then he/she'd still be driving without due care and attention if he/she turned regardless of whether he/she was signalling or not. Now in this case the OP thought the cyclist was far enough away that the turn could be made safely. The question that will be asked is if the cyclist managed to go in to the side of the van, was the cyclist really that far away when the driver checked the wing mirror? What will also be relevant is how late before the turn the wing mirror check was actually made.

Initial reading does suggest the OP didn't commit an offence. That being said some questions can be raised (they always can - nobody drives perfectly). From what I've read I disagree with the issuing of an FPN however - there is nowhere near enough evidence to justify it and it's not normal process following an RTC.

Tilt

Coupon-mad wrote: »

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/incident-between-cyclist-and-taxi-at-junction-opens-debate-as-to-whos-at-fault-201083

Discuss!

In that instance, I would have to say the taxi driver was at fault because he did indicate too late and immediately made the turn after doing so.

Coupon-mad

Yes that was my conclusion when I saw that video too. Cyclist was foolish but taxi driver unobservant/careless IMHO.