On Consultation Notice - Redundancy Looming

fd1972uk

Hi All,

Wondering if anyone can help out with some info etc.

I've been in the job for over 20 years and whilst the last few years redundancy has been looming it seems that this could be the year (or month ).

Called in today for meeting and 3 FT roles are now being made into 1. Being made redundant is a Office Manager, Office Admin and Sales Bid Co-ordinator.

Only 1 job will remain, however it is combined of all 3 roles.

Looking at the job description it seems not a nice job at all, and I would honestly have to question the amount of work that it would entail as it's 2 specific roles in admin and sales.

It seems the operations team have said their peace and advised that they can live without admin support, but although it may sound tit for tat, I don't believe the whole truth of what their job entails has been given to the upper management who are making the decision and have to think that it will be business as usual and the person 'unlucky' enough to get this position will just have to suck it up.

We are trying to put forward a proposal, but will need to see the financial constraints, maybe split into 2 positions might be more manageable. We thought worse case scenario 1 position (likely Admin) would go, but it seems 2 are going.

I would be looking at maybe around £14-15k, but I have a lot of debt in my name which is the main worry. A career change would seem fine, but I would lose a big wage which will be hard to find as well and in the current market.

The thing that is worrying more than anything is actually getting the job, as it seems a scary prospect with for me I think an unfair workload possible for 1 person.

We have made our views that is seems unrealistic, but believe the decision is already made anyway. We need to apply for the job within the next week or so if interested. Have asked for salary, assume it would be increased.

Voluntary redundancy is an option, although not sure of the whole
process if I chose this (should I have asked?).

Any more info required please let me know.


TIA

getmore4less

Consultation is the time to get the role clarified

what is in and what is out.
what skills are needed any training requirements.
If you don't think the role has been explained to the decision makers tell them what you think they have not been told and ask who will be doing that once the roles have merged.

if you believe once clarified that the position will not work because the work load is to much then continue the consultation.

All those potentially getting the job need to make it clear they are not happy with the proposal and workload

if it becomes clearer that you are on the list make the noises that the workload will be too much for the hours and things will not get done.

Identify how the business will suffer if the proposal is unworkable.


VR is only of really of interest if the package is better

fd1972uk

Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yeah, we are in the process of putting stuff together.

We are also trying to maybe at least save another job, whether that be me or not.

In regards to VR, I believe it is statutory. Have to admit the sales thing is the real put off point, it's a field of business I've never been wanting to do and this job will entail quite a bit (or at least suggests that way until the role is maybe given more detail).

Think of trying to do a PQQ or Tender, with phones going off, doors going, letters needing done, multiple databases needing updated and maintained, postal duties and running the office in general trying to work to a deadline just seems to be in all honesty a health hazard.

In all honesty I believe our issues will fall on deaf ears and it's just a cost cutting exercise for the company.

Whilst I have never had experience of this, my only real worry is what debt issues I will have with loans, car loans, credit cards which are relatively high. However maybe a DMP, near £14-15k of redundancy costs and looking at another field of work is the better option. The whole 3 of us involved are not in favour of this 1 position and do agree it is unmanageable, and have already said at the meeting we had.


FD

getmore4less

Sounds like you may have a case for not a suitable alternative if there is an element you have no experience off like sales.

Is this new job going to have a different pay structure?
Bonus/commission that means you base goes down?

what are they going to do if no one wants the new role?

I would not let on you have reasons that will keep you in the job if you get it unless you decide you want it.

fd1972uk

getmore4less wrote: »

I would not let on you have reasons that will keep you in the job if you get it unless you decide you want it.

Hi,

Thanks again for the reply.

What exactly do you mean, I'm hitting a dizzy moment so don't understand.

Requested pay for the job, so should get that I assume tomorrow, as we need to apply by next monday providing CV's, but if we don't know the salary how can we really apply?

I do believe that the job will be applied for us technically don't want to lose our jobs, but I am wavering a bit in all honesty. Hand on heart looking at what is expected in the role, I don't believe any of us would be able to do the job, actually I don't believe anyone can, lol.


FD

getmore4less

Why are you applying they should be doing a selection process.

What if you don't apply?

You have to be really careful applying for a job undermines the redundancy process and you can lose things like a 4 week trial period.

Also because you applied you can't then turn round and say it is not suitable if you don't want it and get redundancy.

If your job is redundant, along with others, then there should be a selection process from the pool of people it is suitable for.

Make it clear you are not applying for the job you are assessing if it is a suitable alternative or not and if not what training will be required and if not sure you will be wanting a 4 weeks trial if the company thinks it is suitable.

(sangie may be able to word this better with a union perspective).


To clarify the other point if it turns out that none of you want the job and the company suspects whoever gets it will just look for something else or quit then IF they know you have issues that make leaving an issue for you, they might just pick you.

fd1972uk

Thanks again.

I'm applying basically because they told us to?

The job will mean just around £2.5k per year more, although technically the manager who is included in this wages will actually decrease.

It did mention in the job description that training and mentoring will happen.

We have been advised too that we need to apply for the job by next monday, the interviews will be on the Thursday, and that is before our 2nd consultation which takes place later that day I Assume. So basically any ideas or proposals we put forward, I'm not sure if this will be acted on or answered prior to the Monday when we must apply (or not) for the job.

I'm leaning more to voluntary redundancy but just scared of any possible outcomes, as said never been in this position before (have been through consultations processes but my job has always been okay in the end).

If I don't apply for job, are they actually trying to say that it was a suitable job and that I was technically resigning?


FD

getmore4less

fd1972uk wrote: »

If I don't apply for job, are they actually trying to say that it was a suitable job and that I was technically resigning?

FD

This is what you may need to counter, if they are saying it is a suitable alternative

Do you agree is is suitable if not why not(or undecided because you don't have all the facts)

You are not applying for the job you are going through a selection process that includes submission of a CV/whatever and interview and any other criteria

You want all the rules around redundancy like a 4 weeks trial to apply( or longer if significant training/mentoring is involved).

what you don't want is accept the job then get the sack for failing to perform because the training and mentoring was inadequate.

If they want you for the job then VR probably won't be an option(or just get rejected).

fd1972uk

Thanks.

I did a little more looking into it and was advised to clarify their position in regards to suitable alternative or just alternative and I've had a response (which I've noted and have in print - email) that is is deemed only an alternative. As the response was that it was regarded as a step-up and having more pay, but it was deemed as a alternative.

So from that I take that it is not deemed as a suitable alternative and as presume that they are offering this as the only option available to all, which is fair enough.

So whilst not made a definite decision on my future if I decide not to apply then I take from their response that I will be made redundant under statutory conditions.


FD

getmore4less

I would get that clarified if you don't apply on the grounds it is not suitable or agree to the selection process and decide once the position is clarified it is not suitable you will still get redundancy.

fd1972uk

Hi,


Yes sent another request asking about this and if notice period will be required to be worked.

Supposedly getting the letter today detailing redundancy information, was supposed to get yesterday, but no, although one of the other members got their letter as I wasn't in the office at the time.


FD