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A friend in need...
OneWickedSon
Posts: 25 Forumite
Hello,
I have a good friend who really seems to have arrived in a horrible situation. I have known her for a few years (I am a married man and to be clear, we are simply good friends and past colleagues). Our children are close. She is unmarried with two children; in modestly paid work, good health and (until recently, co-habiting with the father of her two children in Council property (in Scotland)). She is a fantastic mother and very driven. Until recently, I believed she was part of a strong relationship with her partner - who always seemed like a sensible, gentle and caring man.
Two months ago, she contacted me and explained that things were not good. Her partner had got into debt and missed rent (and utility) payments. When he lost his job on top of this, he could no longer hide the truth and it transpired they were in serious rent arrears. He did not divulge the reason for the debt; causing a massive breakdown of trust between them. My friend could not see past this and their relationship fell apart; she made her feelings known that the relationship was untenable without 100 percent trust. As they handled finances separately, there was little for her to do here. The tenancy and utilities were in his name alone; car finance and other bills in hers. She hoped he would come clean.
He got legal advice instead about separation. I understand she made it clear that by doing that, it was over and she wanted to move out (with the children); but to ensure they remained in close contact with their father. The legal advice was free as he was out of a job; she had no such luxury as she was in work. She desperately sought advice from Cit. Adv, the web and for recommended solicitors. She got little advice from the former and in the case of the latter; the good ones were busy - so she ended up paying for a consultation with one which (in hindsight) may be a poor choice.
Days passed where they shared the property together; which cannot have been easy. Arguments would happen; but with no-where to go, my friend stuck it out.. until he changed the locks, contacted CSA and notified her by text. He let her get her stuff; which she packed away and spent some time on friend's sofas. During this time, she was allowed access to the children. I said at the time that this was not right, it was her home and she needed to fight for it.
Her solicitor advised to go. She should find a house in a good town, safe, good school to help her case. So she did... it took a few weeks, but she did her homework and set it all up.
An initial hearing date was set and the parties attended. While the judge sais it was not a permenant decision, my friend was told the children would stay with the father in the "family home". He claimed all debts were under control and he is subject to a DMP. It is clear he does not intend to find work and is reliant on the CSA payments and out-of-work benefits. The Judge asked my friend's solicitor why a right of residency was not requested immediately on the locks being changed... heavily suggesting that my friend has paid for some very bad advice.
The next stage involves a consultation with involved family. In this case; her mother and his mother. My friend is at an instant disadvantage because her mother lives abroad (EU) and does not speak English well (if at all).
She faces the prospect of being on the back foot from the get go; she does not have the family home. She has to pay CSA maintenance of £400-500 per month to the father who is out of work and has to foot her own legal bill for something which looks like she is likely to lose. She has some savings and her overseas family can help a little to cover her rent. (She has a 6 month tenancy). But after Rent, CSA, bills and Car - she has pennies left.
My friend would be the first to admit she could have better protected herself against such a situation occurring - but hindsight is 20/20 and she is where she is. To do nothing would ultimately result in debt (and ultimately worse) on her part, she would work through the week and only see the children at the weekends.
I can see the father painting an eerily "perfect" world on social media where he looks after the kids. Under the surface, I see a man who lied to the mother of his kids that he had got into debt, failed to pay the rent and the bills and turned on their mum and turfed her out rather than admit fault and reconciliate. (Which could have happened). Now his life is made easier by way of maintenance.
From the children's perspective; I know that without their mother, day to day - they will not thrive. I get that the courts like the status quo - hence the kids staying at home, I get that it's not over. I also get that it could just as easily be a reversed situaion. But for one party to have all of the cards because fate allowed them to claim state support while the other stands by and gets hammered goes beyond the pale.
Has anyone had something like this happen to them? Do you have any advice?
Thank you for reading.
I have a good friend who really seems to have arrived in a horrible situation. I have known her for a few years (I am a married man and to be clear, we are simply good friends and past colleagues). Our children are close. She is unmarried with two children; in modestly paid work, good health and (until recently, co-habiting with the father of her two children in Council property (in Scotland)). She is a fantastic mother and very driven. Until recently, I believed she was part of a strong relationship with her partner - who always seemed like a sensible, gentle and caring man.
Two months ago, she contacted me and explained that things were not good. Her partner had got into debt and missed rent (and utility) payments. When he lost his job on top of this, he could no longer hide the truth and it transpired they were in serious rent arrears. He did not divulge the reason for the debt; causing a massive breakdown of trust between them. My friend could not see past this and their relationship fell apart; she made her feelings known that the relationship was untenable without 100 percent trust. As they handled finances separately, there was little for her to do here. The tenancy and utilities were in his name alone; car finance and other bills in hers. She hoped he would come clean.
He got legal advice instead about separation. I understand she made it clear that by doing that, it was over and she wanted to move out (with the children); but to ensure they remained in close contact with their father. The legal advice was free as he was out of a job; she had no such luxury as she was in work. She desperately sought advice from Cit. Adv, the web and for recommended solicitors. She got little advice from the former and in the case of the latter; the good ones were busy - so she ended up paying for a consultation with one which (in hindsight) may be a poor choice.
Days passed where they shared the property together; which cannot have been easy. Arguments would happen; but with no-where to go, my friend stuck it out.. until he changed the locks, contacted CSA and notified her by text. He let her get her stuff; which she packed away and spent some time on friend's sofas. During this time, she was allowed access to the children. I said at the time that this was not right, it was her home and she needed to fight for it.
Her solicitor advised to go. She should find a house in a good town, safe, good school to help her case. So she did... it took a few weeks, but she did her homework and set it all up.
An initial hearing date was set and the parties attended. While the judge sais it was not a permenant decision, my friend was told the children would stay with the father in the "family home". He claimed all debts were under control and he is subject to a DMP. It is clear he does not intend to find work and is reliant on the CSA payments and out-of-work benefits. The Judge asked my friend's solicitor why a right of residency was not requested immediately on the locks being changed... heavily suggesting that my friend has paid for some very bad advice.
The next stage involves a consultation with involved family. In this case; her mother and his mother. My friend is at an instant disadvantage because her mother lives abroad (EU) and does not speak English well (if at all).
She faces the prospect of being on the back foot from the get go; she does not have the family home. She has to pay CSA maintenance of £400-500 per month to the father who is out of work and has to foot her own legal bill for something which looks like she is likely to lose. She has some savings and her overseas family can help a little to cover her rent. (She has a 6 month tenancy). But after Rent, CSA, bills and Car - she has pennies left.
My friend would be the first to admit she could have better protected herself against such a situation occurring - but hindsight is 20/20 and she is where she is. To do nothing would ultimately result in debt (and ultimately worse) on her part, she would work through the week and only see the children at the weekends.
I can see the father painting an eerily "perfect" world on social media where he looks after the kids. Under the surface, I see a man who lied to the mother of his kids that he had got into debt, failed to pay the rent and the bills and turned on their mum and turfed her out rather than admit fault and reconciliate. (Which could have happened). Now his life is made easier by way of maintenance.
From the children's perspective; I know that without their mother, day to day - they will not thrive. I get that the courts like the status quo - hence the kids staying at home, I get that it's not over. I also get that it could just as easily be a reversed situaion. But for one party to have all of the cards because fate allowed them to claim state support while the other stands by and gets hammered goes beyond the pale.
Has anyone had something like this happen to them? Do you have any advice?
Thank you for reading.
0
Comments
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I presume they were both renting the house (you mentioned rent). Whose name was that tenancy in? Just his, or joint?
Why did she leave? He can't just 'turf her out' if her name is on the lease. Why did she leave her kids behind?
There's more to this.
If he has the kids, yes she should be paying maintenance. It is worked out from income and outgoings so I can only presume the CSA or whoever have arrived at what they think is a fair figure.
Is there a specific question or are you just having a bit of an outpouring? Sounds like it's a situation she accepted even if you think it's unfair.
Jx2024 wins: *must start comping again!*0 -
The answers you require are in the OP post.I presume they were both renting the house (you mentioned rent). Whose name was that tenancy in? Just his, or joint?
Why did she leave? He can't just 'turf her out' if her name is on the lease. Why did she leave her kids behind?
There's more to this.
If he has the kids, yes she should be paying maintenance. It is worked out from income and outgoings so I can only presume the CSA or whoever have arrived at what they think is a fair figure.
Is there a specific question or are you just having a bit of an outpouring? Sounds like it's a situation she accepted even if you think it's unfair.
Jx
1) The tenancy is in his name only.
2) He changed the locks so she couldn't gain access. She has been sofa surfing until she has obtained somewhere of her own to rent.
3) I agree she needs to support the children.
4) She left due to serious issues of trust. Rent & utilities missed. He , the partner became un-employed.
He gets everything paid for as not working, she has to pay for what appears poor advice from the legal profession.0 -
sallysaver wrote: »The answers you require are in the OP post.
1) The tenancy is in his name only.
2) He changed the locks so she couldn't gain access. She has been sofa surfing until she has obtained somewhere of her own to rent.
3) I agree she needs to support the children.
4) She left due to serious issues of trust. Rent & utilities missed. He , the partner became un-employed.
He gets everything paid for as not working, she has to pay for what appears poor advice from the legal profession.
1. Missed the word 'tenancy' but saw he paid utilities.
2. If I'd seen 1, I wouldn't have asked 2
If she was officially homeless with kids, surely she could have gone to the authorities? They would have been a priority case.
Wasn't asking why she left as in the reason, I meant why had she walked out from the home if the tenancy was in her name too - but that was answered in 1 & 2 (see above).
AFAIK, they would have had to tell the council she was moving in with him. That may have created a joint tenancy. She needs to check that. If they didn't inform them, why not? Or were they together when the got the property but for some reason only his name went down?
Sorry if I've missed anything else. Lots in that very long post and I may have missed something, despite having read it a few times. My memory isn't what it used to be...
Jx2024 wins: *must start comping again!*0 -
I have nothing to contribute except my sympathy for your friend, OP. (And my embarrassment that you might imagine that gabriel1980's response might be the common one.)“And all shall be well. And all shall be well. And all manner of things shall be exceeding well.”
― Julian of Norwich
In other words, Don't Panic!0 -
OneWickedSon wrote: »Two months ago, she contacted me and explained that things were not good. Her partner had got into debt and missed rent (and utility) payments. When he lost his job on top of this, he could no longer hide the truth and it transpired they were in serious rent arrears. He did not divulge the reason for the debt; causing a massive breakdown of trust between them. My friend could not see past this and their relationship fell apart; she made her feelings known that the relationship was untenable without 100 percent trust. As they handled finances separately, there was little for her to do here. The tenancy and utilities were in his name alone; car finance and other bills in hers. She hoped he would come clean.
I wonder if he has/had a gambling problem? Not that it matters now anyway.
You also mention that your friend is in "modestly paid work" so she might want to get her CSA payments re-assessed because I just entered some basic figures into the Government child maintenance calculator and used earning £750 per week gross salary (roughly £40k pa) and kids stay over 1-2 nights a week and it came back as £123.60 per week (£494.40 per month).
Regarding the bad advice from her solicitor, she can make a complaint and follow the procedure here:
http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/report-solicitor.page
If the judge has said it is not a permanent decision then she may have some serious decisions to make of her own shortly because I don’t see how she can continue to work a full-time job and have the children full-time/sole resident parent custody also. Logically the judge would side with the kids remaining with the father because he’s not working so can cover school run/after school etc. It seems to be because she has a job, she is being penalised for it, whereas if she made herself unemployed and went on benefits like her ex, she would have just as much a shot for full custody as he did. Tough situation for your friend but it also looks like there is no easy answer as well.I'm a Board Guide on the Credit Cards, Loans, Credit Files & Ratings boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com0 -
She can prob get 30-60 mins free with a solicitor so definitely worth looking into that. Might get some much needed positive advice.
Jx2024 wins: *must start comping again!*0 -
How old are the kids and what would her situation be otherwise?
Imagine she got custody of the children and they aren't old enough to be left alone (ie. teenagers) or look after themselves, how would she be able to afford to feed them, look after them and pay childcare when the father is out of work and so won't be paying CSA? Presumably she can't unless she has help and you mention that her mother is out of the country (father too?). I'd look on the father looking after the kids during the week as 'childcare' she's paying for (which she'd otherwise be paying for anyway and probably a lot more), plus the kids get to stay in their home and school.0
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