Storage heaters - help!

Hotair

Thanks Richie from the Boro. I will read through the posts more carefully (it all got a bit techy on the first read through!) and see where we go from here. Can't believe everyone is so helpful - well done mse! :-)

lstar337

Hotair wrote: »

None of the price comparison websites cover this tariff

No of them cover E10 either, so factor that into your decision.

If it was me, it would be E7 all the way. I have seen barely any competitive E10 tariff's, and as I said above, they are not on the comparison sites which makes your job of finding a good price so much harder.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hotair wrote: »

Hi. New to this so bear with me. I currently have a 'complex' meter for electricity. It is actually two meters, one at a very expensive tariff for day time and one less expensive (apparently!) which operates for 14 hours, mainly at night, and which runs an underfloor heating system. I have been in this flat for just over a year and the heating is prohibitively expensive. Added to that, my supplier, Eon, have advised that they have to replace the meters as they are now obsolete and can only install an Economy 7 or Economy 10 meter. Neither of these would give me as much heating as I have at present and, as it is so expensive anyway, I am seriously considering going for storage heaters (there is no gas in the building). So my questions are:

- should I go for E7 or E10?
- storage heaters?
- if so, which ones? I have been looking at Dimplex Quantum but believe they are quite pricey)
- any views on Far infrared?
- any other advice, other than moving house to somewhere with gas?!!

Any advice most welcome. For info, the flat is top floor, flat roof, double glazed, external walls in all rooms with little insulation, solid floors. Many thanks.

Afternoon Hotair and welcome to the Forums. Already some great advice on here. Thought I'd pop on and let you know a bit about what we're doing with some of our older meters. There's quite a lot of information and sorry if I ramble on.

Sounds like you've what's known as a Restricted Hour Tariff (RHT) meter. These were mainly designed for all electric properties with specific types of heating, like underfloor, and electric water immersion heaters for hot water. With these meters, there are a number of hours in each 24 hour period where electricity for heating/hot water is charged at cheaper off peak rates. Usually, this is split into 3 time slots during the afternoon, in the evening and at night. To work the meter will be wired into the dedicated heating/water immersion circuits. Unless manually overridden, this generally lets the meter automatically turn the heating on during the off peak period and off again afterwards.

One of your meters will record electricity coming through these dedicated circuits for heating/hot water purposes. The other will register all other usage. Depending on the type of set up, there are usually a number of hours where all electricity is charged at the cheaper off peak rates.

Many of these meters are nearing the end of their shelf life and won't be replaced like for like. Instead, we're offering a choice of Economy 10, Economy 7 or single rate. I suspect the Economy 10 will be closest to what you have at the moment. This, too, will be wired into the heating circuits and also have three off peak periods. As you say, with Economy 10, you'll have less off peak hours than now. Here, though, the 10 off peak hours will be for all usage. Like your current deal, we only have the one tariff available for Economy 10.

Economy 7 meters are usually okay for electric heating and electric water immersion heaters but there are only 7 off peak hours and all at night. There aren't any cheaper top ups in the afternoon and evening. In the past, a common complaint with Economy 7 was things like storage heaters tended to leak heat and cool down too early leaving properties cold in the evenings. Economy10 was a way round this as the top ups helped properties stay warm throughout the day. I suspect this is similar to what happens at your property now. Guessing though. Also, modern storage heaters might be more efficient and not leak heat so much. My knowledge of this is very limited and I could well be wrong. I'd talk to someone with more expertise on storage heaters.

There are more tariffs available for Economy 7 meters both with us and with the other suppliers. The single rate alternative usually suits customers who have replaced their electric heating with something like gas or oil. Again, more tariffs available.

As with most multi-rate meters, to be cost effective, a significant amount of electricity needs to be used during the cheaper off peak hours. The actual amount will depend on the region, prices and usage. I know some of these hours aren't at very sociable times but one way to take more advantage of the cheaper times might be to see if you can use timers particularly on high load appliances like washing machines or dishwashers. There are more tips about ways to save money by saving energy on our website.

The meter exchange is free and you don't have to have a Smart Meter. In fact, Smart Meters aren't available everywhere yet and you might not have the option. Even if Smart Meters are available, they're optional and you can go for a conventional meter if you prefer.

Hope I've not rambled on too much Hotair and that the information is useful. Let me know if you need any more details as happy to help.

Malc

Hotair

Thanks Malc from Eon. All useful information. I may be being a little unreasonable but it is disappointing that I have no choice but to lose my current tariff when the options on offer leave me worse off one way or another. I either end up with less heating that now (7 or 10 hours as opposed to the current 14) and therefore have to pay extra at full rate to supplement the heating or, in order to get sufficient heating at the cheaper rate, I have to replace the entire heating system. Is any help available to me for this? As I say, perhaps I'm being unreasonable but, when I have no choice in the matter, I do feel a little miffed at the inevitable expense I will likely incur no matter what option I go for. Sorry for banging on - you may have caught me on a bad day!

jk0

I don't think ten hours out of fourteen will be that bad, will it? If my house is anything to go by you'll only need the full heat for about 30 days a year. If you buy an oil filled rad for your lounge & bedroom, & try to only use them during the low rate times, I bet you'll be fine.

Certainly try the E10 before putting in a new heating system for the sake of a doubtful saving.

Kitchen_Sink

Hotair wrote: »

Thanks Malc from Eon. All useful information. I may be being a little unreasonable but it is disappointing that I have no choice but to lose my current tariff when the options on offer leave me worse off one way or another. I either end up with less heating that now (7 or 10 hours as opposed to the current 14) and therefore have to pay extra at full rate to supplement the heating or, in order to get sufficient heating at the cheaper rate, I have to replace the entire heating system. Is any help available to me for this? As I say, perhaps I'm being unreasonable but, when I have no choice in the matter, I do feel a little miffed at the inevitable expense I will likely incur no matter what option I go for. Sorry for banging on - you may have caught me on a bad day!

Whilst you may only get 10 hours instead of 14, ALL of your electricity used during those 10 hours will be at the cheap rate.

You also need to look at cost. I very much doubt that the unit prices of the new tariff will be that of the old tariff.

In fact it's going to be very difficult to say what difference the new tariff will end up costing you compared to the old tariff, until you have had an opportunity to live with it for probably about a year and can then compare the costs.

But a refreshing change to meet someone here on MSE who apparently loves their current legacy tariff

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hotair wrote: »

Thanks Malc from Eon. All useful information. I may be being a little unreasonable but it is disappointing that I have no choice but to lose my current tariff when the options on offer leave me worse off one way or another. I either end up with less heating that now (7 or 10 hours as opposed to the current 14) and therefore have to pay extra at full rate to supplement the heating or, in order to get sufficient heating at the cheaper rate, I have to replace the entire heating system. Is any help available to me for this? As I say, perhaps I'm being unreasonable but, when I have no choice in the matter, I do feel a little miffed at the inevitable expense I will likely incur no matter what option I go for. Sorry for banging on - you may have caught me on a bad day!

You're welcome Hotair. Glad to help.

Totally take your point about losing hours when usage for heating and hot water are cheaper. As Kitchen Sink says, if you decide on Economy 10, the 10 off peak hours will be for all usage instead of the limited number you have now. Depending on the circumstances, this might make up a little for the lost hours.

I also agree with Kitchen Sink about the tariff. Have a look at the prices on the new tariff and see how they stack up against what you're paying at the moment. Economy 7 and single rate prices are on our website but Economy 10 aren't. We'll be happy to let you know these if you contact us. If it helps, drop an email to the address in my Profile and I'll tell you what they are. Only need to know the region to find the prices. When you've a minute, pop your annual usage in kWh on to the independent comparison sites. This will give you an idea of what else is out there particularly for Economy 7 and single rate.

As I posted Tuesday, I suspect Economy 10 is nearest to your current set up. This will be wired in as now so you can continue to take advantage of the tops ups in the afternoon and evening. Hopefully, this will give you the warmth and hot water you need without having to stray into the more expensive peak hours and rates. The downside with Economy 10 is, unlike Economy 7 and single rate, we only have the one tariff. This is, though, the same as now with your RHT set up.

Whilst we wouldn't be able to help replacing the entire heating system if that's what you want to do, there are grants available provided you're eligible. Have you heard about the Energy Company Obligation? This is a Government led scheme that aims to cut usage by providing help with energy saving stuff like loft and cavity wall insulation. In certain circumstances, it includes boiler replacements too. There's more information on our website.

Hope this is of interest Hotair. Come back to me if you need anything else as happy to help.

Malc

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Kitchen_Sink wrote: »

Whilst you may only get 10 hours instead of 14, ALL of your electricity used during those 10 hours will be at the cheap rate.

You also need to look at cost. I very much doubt that the unit prices of the new tariff will be that of the old tariff.

In fact it's going to be very difficult to say what difference the new tariff will end up costing you compared to the old tariff, until you have had an opportunity to live with it for probably about a year and can then compare the costs.

But a refreshing change to meet someone here on MSE who apparently loves their current legacy tariff

Good advice Kitchen Sink. Thanks for posting. You're right, it's rare to come across someone who likes legacy metering. It's usually the opposite, particularly where customers move in to properties with an existing set up.

Malc

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

jk0 wrote: »

Have to?!

Are you sure this isn't some ruse to get you to install a smart meter? Even if the meters don't work, they only need to replace them with normal single rate meters.

If they are getting rid of the tariff, (which I doubt) I would go for E10 with your existing setup and see how you get on for a year. You can always put storage heaters in next year if you really think you need them.

You're right jk0. No need to go down the Smart Meter route if not required. Smart Meters are optional so customers can go for a conventional meter where a replacement is needed or due if that's what they prefer.

As above, Smart Meters aren't available everywhere yet. It depends on things like the region, type of property, current metering set up and strength of the mobile phone signal used to send messages between us and the meter. As the rollout unfolds and the technology advances, more and more properties will become eligible if customers want to take up the offer of going smart.

Hope this explains a bit about our Smart Meter programme.

Malc

Richie-from-the-Boro

Day core rate energy costs 'X'.
7 cheap / 24 costs X-% @ 30%.
10 cheap / 24 costs the proportional same.
18 cheap / 24 would cost the proportional same.
24 cheap / 24 would cost the proportional same.

My point is the baseline advantage is 7 / 24, if you want 10 cheaper hours, rather than my 7 cheaper hours you will and should pay more for the extra 3 hours. The few existing E10 providers for the tiny remaining E10 users languish on an uncompetitive tariff and pay for that by loosing out on the volume tariff reductions available to the rest of us ..... and by having all electricity in the 7 / 24 at the cheaper rate.

The cheapest all electric water and space heating is night store and E7. If I wanted an extra 3 or even 13 hours of cheap daytime heat I'd simply store more.