The EU: IN or OUT?

Missus_Hyde

That just reads like word salad. I don't know how much more simply a fairly complex scenario can .................................................. ................................................
That leaves us having to either borrow more, make cut backs on spending or do both.
Originally posted by JohnRo

EnglishMohican wrote: »

You gave the gist of this answer back at post 896.

At post 957, Ballard asked me a reasonable question so at the very next post, 958, I tried to answer it, using an analogy to my electricity payment,

It was essentially about gross value versus net value and the value of the UK contribution as it stands now.

At post 960, you introduced the unit cost of electricity which had no bearing on the analogy at all and did not contribute to the point being discussed. You have banged on about it ever since, clearly losing track of the equivalences in the analogy altogether.

I have no problem with you making your rare, long, explanatory posts as above. You are entitled to your depressing opinion though you are a bit too keen to treat your opinion as fact for my liking and everybody except you as an idiot. Your frequent, short, one line replies are simply offensive, inane and pointless.

However, it just confuses everybody when you insist on tying your hobbyhorse onto an element of the discussion to which it is not relevant. Please try to keep up with the threads within a thread.

Agreed; it's quite amazing, I haven't looked at this thread for a couple of days and the Remains are still using the same petulant monotonous arguments in a sort of repetitious 'Groundhog Day' scenario.

masonic

EnglishMohican wrote: »

Its not true though is it.

Petrol is a good example of something that will be less affected by inflation, because the duty is charged per litre, whereas most sales tax is charged as a percentage of the price (e.g. VAT). Profit margins are also expressed as a percentage of revenue and I don't think UK companies will be eager to see those shrink.

But the point was that we are all poorer than we were relative to the rest of the world as a result of Brexit. How temporary that situation will be remains to be seen. Perhaps read the blog post I linked for a detailed explanation of why this should be.

The effect of Brexit in terms of inflation is not yet known, but will become apparent over the next year or two. I doubt inflation will be as high as 10%, though, if that's what you thought I was trying to imply.

bigadaj

Don't see the point in bickering, we'll see how things develop.

The drop in the pound has made exports more competitive of course, and all major economies primailriy want to ensure their currencies aren't too strong.

An increase in inflation won't necessarily be a bad thing, how many letters has mark carney been writing now?

jimjames

BucksLady wrote: »

I agree with you. It is also ironic that David C was forever stating 'Brits' don't quit' and yet that's exactly what he did.

Considering all the people who disliked Cameron, what do you think the net result of the vote would have been if he'd said "I'll quit if you vote Leave"?

EnglishMohican wrote: »

Semantically, I think a lie has to be a fact that is incorrect (my opinion). So if the £350M was in fact only £10M (exaggerating to avoid confusion) then claiming it was £350M would be a lie. The true gross figure changes from year to year but it is near enough to £350M currently to be true enough not to be a lie.

I guess it depends if you think that numbers within 100% of each other are close enough to be accurate.

If you give me £20 and I pay back £10 then the net cost is not £20.

Missus_Hyde wrote: »

Agreed; it's quite amazing, I haven't looked at this thread for a couple of days and the Remains are still using the same petulant monotonous arguments in a sort of repetitious 'Groundhog Day' scenario.

Probably because it's true. 7 days in we are still no closer to anyone shedding any light on a vision of what Leaving is meant to be so it's hardly surprising that anyone is raising questions about that.

EnglishMohican

masonic wrote: »

Profit margins are also expressed as a percentage of revenue and I don't think UK companies will be eager to see those shrink..

I am sure you are right. But a percentage of their costs is the UK labour costs involved in servicing the sale. So salaries can go up to compensate for the higher cost of living. I accept that is looking on the brightside but all gloom and doom is no more correct.

masonic wrote: »

But the point was that we are all poorer than we were relative to the rest of the world as a result of Brexit. How temporary that situation will be remains to be seen. Perhaps read the blog post I linked for a detailed explanation of why this should be..

I have read the blog post and surprisingly enough I understood it.

masonic wrote: »

..... I doubt inflation will be as high as 10%, though, if that's what you thought I was trying to imply.

No, I did not think that. The comments on Ermine's blog echo mine and are suggesting 1% (extra) inflation is all that will be seen and Ermine is not contradicting that. Also they suggest it is not the percentage devaluation in the pound that matters but the actual inflation level and the link is not straight forward. The government would like inflation to be higher than it is - so they have succeeded. Conspiracy theories anyone?

If you have flogged through my other posts, you may have concluded that I like accurate statements - pedantic some would say. There has been a discussion higher up about whether anyone would believe the "We could give £350M to the NHS" placard (or whatever it actually said). Remainers have made a great fuss about that placard and the dishonesty of it. I agree it is a crass placard but the same sort of argument applies to Ermine's quote. Some/many people might believe it and think Brexit will bring on 10% inflation. Ermine making it in the first place and you repeating it here could mislead the public just as the Remainers claim the placard does.
I believe that all sides should stick to rational, thoughful discussion rather than trying to build a false impression through deliberately deceitful or sloppily worded statements. I try to stick to that philosophy myself but I am sure others can find places I have erred.

EnglishMohican

jimjames wrote: »

....
If you give me £20 and I pay back £10 then the net cost is not £20.
....

Nobody has said the £20 is the net cost, certainly not me as your quoting suggests.

But it is the gross cost. Well to try to be accurate - the rebate is a problem in deciding what the gross cost is.

If we keep the rebate until we leave then we only gain control of an extra (£20 minus rebate). If we stay in the EU in some way and a future prime minister does a Tony Blair and gives it away then we are losing control of the full £20. So the gross amount could be £20 or (£20-rebate) depending on the future.

I have already said that arguing to give the full gross amount to the NHS is crass as that scuppers UK science and farming and other EU funded (with our money) activities. But technically it is in our power to give it to the NHS if it is in our control. Therefore using the gross figure is valid even if nobody in their right mind would do as that infamous placard suggested.

Ballard

You're never going to convince me that there was anything ethical in claiming that we send £350m a week to the EU so as far as I'm concerned it's time to move on.

How about the 'fact' that Turkey will join the EU soon? What's your take on that?

blutto

ANYONE BUT COWARDLY THERESA MAY ! God Please! We will go into the abyss!
She DELIBERATELY took a low key over the last few weeks to try and come out of nowhere to steal the Tory Crown! She will be a walkover i am telling ya!

As much as i am not a fan of Gove he will be no walk over i can assure you! So my vote is for Gove or the Andrea Leadsom woman!

Maybe ,just maybe, this is a Gove ploy >> not to win but just to stop the Boris ! It worked ! Or has struck a deal secretly with old Theresa ?? Was that the plan all along to topple Boris for Theresa by coming out to fight for Pm to stop him and his chances that would have stood in old hag Theresa's way! By the way she has not been much cop in my view as 'Home Secretary either' ! She is 'NO' Thatcher and i just do not believe she is up to the job! I really don't! Saw her at the dispatch box a few times and if labour get their act together and get a strong character for a Leader ,he or she will rip her to bits as she is no fighter!

Gove or leadsom is my vote as Fox and Crabb will not make it to the final 2! If Theresa gets it ,i will be voting Green in protest next time round!

So any Tory party members on here reading this,bare this in mind ! Quite a few people i have spoke to at work today hate her,do not like her ,or just think she is weak! So think about that when you cast your party vote! You vote her in,you will Loose in 2020 or before! You loose my vote for guarantee!

Dird

Ballard wrote: »

You're never going to convince me that there was anything ethical in claiming that we send £350m a week to the EU so as far as I'm concerned it's time to move on.

Do you normally say you make x per month or y per month (x - NI - tax)

moneyfoolish

blutto wrote: »

ANYONE BUT COWARDLY THERESA MAY ! God Please! We will go into the abyss!
She DELIBERATELY took a low key over the last few weeks to try and come out of nowhere to steal the Tory Crown! She will be a walkover i am telling ya!

As much as i am not a fan of Gove he will be no walk over i can assure you! So my vote is for Gove or the Andrea Leadsom woman!

Maybe ,just maybe, this is a Gove ploy >> not to win but just to stop the Boris ! It worked ! Or has struck a deal secretly with old Theresa ?? Was that the plan all along to topple Boris for Theresa by coming out to fight for Pm to stop him and his chances that would have stood in old hag Theresa's way! By the way she has not been much cop in my view as 'Home Secretary either' ! She is 'NO' Thatcher and i just do not believe she is up to the job! I really don't! Saw her at the dispatch box a few times and if labour get their act together and get a strong character for a Leader ,he or she will rip her to bits as she is no fighter!

Gove or leadsom is my vote as Fox and Crabb will not make it to the final 2! If Theresa gets it ,i will be voting Green in protest next time round!

So any Tory party members on here reading this,bare this in mind ! Quite a few people i have spoke to at work today hate her,do not like her ,or just think she is weak! So think about that when you cast your party vote! You vote her in,you will Loose in 2020 or before! You loose my vote for guarantee!

I think you are going to be very disappointed, then!