Where would i find the 'window cavity seal'?

JustAnotherSaver

Hopefully a simple one for those in the know.

We have leaking windows in the living room & a chap was recommended to me so i fired off an email giving as much info as i could.

He's responded asking if the "cavity seal is in good condition above the window".

I google imaged "window cavity seal" but i don't really know what he's meaning in order for me to check it.



Where is this cavity seal on there?

DavidFx

Google 'Cavity Tray'

JustAnotherSaver

DavidFx wrote: »

Google 'Cavity Tray'

Well am i right then in thinking that either we don't have one

Or it's that long piece that runs directly above the window frame. The top of the frame actually touches it?

House built in 1930s if it makes a difference as to whether it likely has one of those things.

Furts

Responding to your posts is a delicate issue for me. Let me take this post as a way forward.

Any building defect can only be sorted by investigation - a physical process. This is just like if your car breaks down you cannot reasonably expect it to be diagnosed without a human being physically looking at it.

Instead you have sent off an email. The person receiving this email is not really interested in your procedure so feeds you a brush off, a placebo, or a load of boll-cks.

But you cannot blame the person for responding like this when they will be busy dealing with more professional queries.

Equally this is like the old saying about computers "Garbage in gives garbage out". You fed in the garbage, so you got garbage out in return.

Coming onto your window a site inspection would raise the following;
1) A window cavity seal is a meaningless piece of nonsense. It is also irrelevant. So the person who said this is of questionable competence.
2) A cavity tray is the norm on modern properties - who knows what happened when yours was built in the 1930s.
3) In an ideal world you do not require a cavity tray - your walls are rendered.
4) your windows are poor quality, old, appear to have a sagging head, and are poorly fitted.
5) the poor window extends to poor manufacture and poor fitting.
6) My above two statements could be wrong but consider this. First there is either a cover strip, or an add on above your window. Neither should be there if things were perfect. Neither are present at the sides. Second there are no visible signs of any sealant between the frame and the walls. Third who knows what fitting detail exists with the windows and you have not commented on this. Indeed are there any fixings at all?
7) the windows were almost certainly fitted after the render was done so the problem is likely to be the windows and not the structure.

You have questionned/criticised me for adopting a logical professional approach. You have said none of your friends and colleagues do this, so why should you. Hence you imply my approach is wrong. By default you maintain your approach is correct.

Your approach on this matter has got you nowhere. My approach based on nothing more than one photo has raised the above seven points.

Best of luck with moving the latest problem forward - clearly you have not taken on board the comments made about your internet/email approach. Neither have you taken on board the comment about needing professional help with your building problems.

Hit the thanks button if you wish. I think my post gives you a few professional, technical and informed points to ponder over.

JustAnotherSaver

A way forward?

No.

It looks like you're upset from the previous thread, saw a new one from me & thought you'd continue whatever issue you have with me.

You seem to be criticising the fact i have contacted a professional by email.

Well shoot me ... many professionals have websites & shock horror ....... AN EMAIL CONTACT OPTION.

The only people i know of who don't like email as an option are the same people who don't like sat navs. They're about 999 years old & they can't grasp that people do use email as a method of contact.

It goes like this ... i contact him, tell him all i can, he asks a question or two, we set a date for him to come & inspect (you didn't think he was going to diagnose over email did you? Come on!) & the job moves on from there.

"Garbage in"? Get a grip! I said to the guy - we have leaking windows, we have tried XYZ, are you able to come out some time & have a look to see what you think.

Yeah, garbage isn't it.


Well since you wont block me, i'll leave this up long enough for you to notice it & then i'll have to block you since i have no time for whatever this problem is you have with me.

cyclonebri1

The thing that matters is simply the seal between the window frame and the wall, if it's rendered it will be under the render and possibly on the surface too. This is because to remove and replace in plastic on rendered homes means the render is the window reveal has to be chopped out.

It's normally just a bead of silicone mastic.

But, lack of detail again, where is it leaking?

Damp internal reveal, window seals seeping or whistling?

Do you actually have cavity walls, there introduction was over 30 years or so therefore a house built in the early 30's doesn't necessarily have cavity walls, doesn't really matter as they usually just bricked the reveal closed without any membrane, or even left them open.

You get my drift again?, it's a how long is that piece of string without enough info.

Look if I'd have been you I'd have come here first, There are some very helpful guys and many have tried and still are trying to help YOU. Ask the question here, you are then at least in a more knowledgeable position when you deal with trades you don't fully understand.
Personally it's phone call every time for me, too simple to ignore an email, I'm quite surprised you got any reply, but few builder etc will ignore a mobile call from a number they don't reco

JustAnotherSaver

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

You get my drift again?, it's a how long is that piece of string without enough info.

Look if I'd have been you I'd have come here first,

I've got to say that i am actually beginning to dread asking here.

I do still ask because like you say there are SOME helpful people.

But there are people who wish they were lawyers. They must do because they certainly act like it ... trying to create something out of nothing. Telling you what you mean, putting the most incredible twists on what you say, words in your mouth. All for what?

Asking questions here is often like let's say going to a shop & saying i'd like some granny smith apples.
Then the person serving you starts to ask why you want these apples. Have you considered some braeburn apples? No? Well why not. How can you know you want granny smith if you haven't considered braeburn? And while we're at it, why aren't you asking for bananas too? Perhaps you need them. Did you ever think of that?

Then others chirp in asking why you're not buying pears & before you know it you've gone way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay away from buying your simple granny smith apples that the whole thing has become ridiculous.

THEN finally, a member of staff comes out of the back & says - look sir, i know you only came in for some granny smith apples, so here you go.

Seriously :wall: That's how it honestly seems at times.

Personally it's phone call every time for me, too simple to ignore an email, I'm quite surprised you got any reply, but few builder etc will ignore a mobile call from a number they don't reco

This is where we start drifting off though.
This is where the forum is asking for more information than they actually need. How i contacted is irrelevant really isn't it?

If you want the full story, then a friend of mine knows a window fitter quite well. Spoke of my problem briefly & window fitter said to drop them an email saying who i was & they'll get back in touch.

Now the forum here may say "well why didn't you say that" ... but i didn't need to really did i, because it's not relevant to the problem at hand.



As for the problem........

We've tried silicone down the sides - where the frame meets dashing, a little at the base but not too much to block the drain holes.
We've poured water in at the top ... it comes out of the base.
I've siliconed the black rubber seal that divides glass & frame in the corners as a last ditch attempt.

Those who did the damp working knocked off the plaster, inserted DPC, re-plastered ... it didn't work, apart from on the side that was worst effected, it SEEMS that it MAY have worked there but we haven't had enough rain to test properly.

It didn't leak beforehand.

Those who did the damp work said they think the windows were poorly fitted, that it perhaps always did leak but now the wall has been tanked, the water can't go where it was going because it wont penetrate the tanking and so it's finding a new path ........ the walls at the side.

Short of windows out, we've tried everything suggested to us.

Furts

JustAnotherSaver wrote: »

I've got to say that i am actually beginning to dread asking here.

I do still ask because like you say there are SOME helpful people.

But there are people who wish they were lawyers. They must do because they certainly act like it ... trying to create something out of nothing. Telling you what you mean, putting the most incredible twists on what you say, words in your mouth. All for what?

Asking questions here is often like let's say going to a shop & saying i'd like some granny smith apples.
Then the person serving you starts to ask why you want these apples. Have you considered some braeburn apples? No? Well why not. How can you know you want granny smith if you haven't considered braeburn? And while we're at it, why aren't you asking for bananas too? Perhaps you need them. Did you ever think of that?

Then others chirp in asking why you're not buying pears & before you know it you've gone way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay away from buying your simple granny smith apples that the whole thing has become ridiculous.

THEN finally, a member of staff comes out of the back & says - look sir, i know you only came in for some granny smith apples, so here you go.

Seriously :wall: That's how it honestly seems at times.



This is where we start drifting off though.
This is where the forum is asking for more information than they actually need. How i contacted is irrelevant really isn't it?

If you want the full story, then a friend of mine knows a window fitter quite well. Spoke of my problem briefly & window fitter said to drop them an email saying who i was & they'll get back in touch.

Now the forum here may say "well why didn't you say that" ... but i didn't need to really did i, because it's not relevant to the problem at hand.



As for the problem........

We've tried silicone down the sides - where the frame meets dashing, a little at the base but not too much to block the drain holes.
We've poured water in at the top ... it comes out of the base.
I've siliconed the black rubber seal that divides glass & frame in the corners as a last ditch attempt.

Those who did the damp working knocked off the plaster, inserted DPC, re-plastered ... it didn't work, apart from on the side that was worst effected, it SEEMS that it MAY have worked there but we haven't had enough rain to test properly.

It didn't leak beforehand.

Those who did the damp work said they think the windows were poorly fitted, that it perhaps always did leak but now the wall has been tanked, the water can't go where it was going because it wont penetrate the tanking and so it's finding a new path ........ the walls at the side.

Short of windows out, we've tried everything suggested to us.

Cyclonebri1 is a switched on guy. He has asked where the window leaks. You have rambled on but not answered this fundamental question. Instead you have said it comes out of the base. The base of what? inside the house or outside the house? Nobody here is a crystal ball reader. However, we could pass comment on your window drainage detail but you have not shown this in your photo.

So do you have concealed drainage? If so is this blocked? Do you have drainage slots with face fixed cover pieces? If we knew this we could advise further, or even discount these ideas.

Nobody is actually against you - if they were they would not keep on trying to help you. But your natural reaction to all the help being offered is bizarre.

JustAnotherSaver

I guess by replying you can still see my posts even though i put you on ignore.

You may well have said something really helpful & perhaps even been very pleasant.
But enough is enough. I've dealt with enough attitude on this forum and i don't block many but it needed to be done with you.

I have a thread up in the motoring forum at the moment if you'd like to go criticise that?
Perhaps i should get in 10 different professionals from various areas in order to sell a car for example & get a suitable project manager.

It's easy to come online & be silly & take pointless shots isn't it.
But that's all it is ... pointless.

Thanks for your replies so far.

Silver-Surfer_2

Furts wrote: »

Cyclonebri1 is a switched on guy. He has asked where the window leaks. You have rambled on but not answered this fundamental question. Instead you have said it comes out of the base. The base of what? inside the house or outside the house? Nobody here is a crystal ball reader. However, we could pass comment on your window drainage detail but you have not shown this in your photo.

So do you have concealed drainage? If so is this blocked? Do you have drainage slots with face fixed cover pieces? If we knew this we could advise further, or even discount these ideas.

Nobody is actually against you - if they were they would not keep on trying to help you. But your natural reaction to all the help being offered is bizarre.

Yes, he can see your posts.

I don't know why you put furts on ignore.

Is it because you don't like what he's telling you?

Kiran

I thought I accidently stepped into the screwfix forums! The questions asked above aren't being asked to be probing or invasive but they are trying to get out the additional information that may try and provide the solution to the problem. They are valid points being made.


A photo of the actual damp would be helpful as it may be more apparent what the cause is.