Planning on non development land

spadoosh

Hi thanks for taking the time to read, will try and keep it short and to the point.

Ambitions of starting a kennel business one day. Basically ready made property too expensive. Always fancied a self build (nothing more manly than building your own house right?).

Land locally is small and normally quite urban which means expensive.

Read of loads of the ways round development rules and one i keep coming across is the smallholding loophole. Basically suggests buy land (most types of land) get permitted development for agricultural building. Put on a static and work like heck for 5 years to get the smallholding earning. After the 5 years you need to prove its viable and the suggestion seems you'd get planning to change the static into a permanent dwelling providing you can prove a need (caring for animals).

Ignoring everything i want to do and just looking at the smallholding loophole is it actually a viable option for getting your own house built. A smallholding sounds idyllic to me but having always been an urbanite

I understand most councils are different and should speak to my local council but thinking it will be a bit daft getting in contact with someone saying "im thinking of doing this at some point in my life, what do i do?" without getting as much understanding as possible, guessing therell be a few planning officers on here and users tend to be harshly realistic:p so hoping people can offer their experiences in this or similar matters.

Thank you.

Dan-Dan

I cant think of a single kennels near me that could be classed as being in an `urban` area , something to consider long term?

spadoosh

Dan-Dan wrote: »

I cant think of a single kennels near me that could be classed as being in an `urban` area , something to consider long term?

We woudlnt be looking at urban areas. Thinking more buying a farmers field. The kennels is long term and would be long after a 'viable smallholding' is established.

Ozzuk

I think there are a few holes in your plan. First of all you need to develop a business and I'm pretty sure you'd need planning on agricultural land for kennels - and why would they grant it if no house there to look after them.

So you are left looking at other ways to develop the land - which is difficult but not impossible. There was another thread on here where someone was battling with planning over pretty much the same thing you are asking for - they stopped her 'living' or staying in the static.

spadoosh

Ozzuk wrote: »

I think there are a few holes in your plan. First of all you need to develop a business and I'm pretty sure you'd need planning on agricultural land for kennels - and why would they grant it if no house there to look after them.

So you are left looking at other ways to develop the land - which is difficult but not impossible. There was another thread on here where someone was battling with planning over pretty much the same thing you are asking for - they stopped her 'living' or staying in the static.

The kennels would be long after the property is bought and probably shouldnt be considered with regards to getting a smallholding up and running.

Basically i would want to buy a plot of land. Get some polytunells and fruit on it then look at introducing a few different animals (not dogs). Initally we wouldnt live on site but would eventually need to move on site to care for the livestock. Now i know it could make revenue but it would probably be deliberately run to minimise profit (generally a lot of investing and saving for a rainy day) so confused about the viability aspect.

Any chances you can remember the user or rough name of the thread?

Gigervamp

I don't know about planning etc, but what experience do you have with livestock? Also, how much land are you thinking of?

A handful of sheep would need a couple of fields (to allow for rotation). You'd also need more land for the polytunnels, and any other livestock (pigs, chickens).

If you have no experience, I suggest you do some smallholding courses to get a feel for it. People do have animals on land not attached to their homes, but they do have problems with animals being stolen.

If you're on Twitter, check out @SmallholdersUK as it's a feed which has a different smallholder tweeting each week, so you get a good cross section of views and experiences.

spadoosh

Ive had poultry and helped out a few times with pigs, theres a definite lack in complete knowledge but im always trying to learn. We have an agricultural college locally so planning on getting a couple of courses booked on there eventually but been told that the smallholder one they do isnt that great so would probably look at specific short courses. Would be looking at between 2-5 acres, the more the better really. Grazers could make it tricky with business side of things so thinking initially more effort with the poultry.

Not on twitter but will keep checking out their page. Thank you.

Davesnave

I have a smallholding and I've run a horticultural business, but there is little money in either.

The nation isn't short of smallholdings, so you need good reasons for creating another, including accounts which show serious business viability over at least 3, and possibly as much as 5 years of trading. Then, and only then, might you be allowed to build an agriculturally-tied dwelling to replace a static or other temporary structure.

So the question is, what sort of business do you think you might run, and with so many smallholders just making a pittance, how are you going to do it better than them?

spadoosh

Davesnave wrote: »

I have a smallholding and I've run a horticultural business, but there is little money in either.

The nation isn't short of smallholdings, so you need good reasons for creating another, including accounts which show serious business viability over at least 3, and possibly as much as 5 years of trading. Then, and only then, might you be allowed to build an agriculturally-tied dwelling to replace a static or other temporary structure.

So the question is, what sort of business do you think you might run, and with so many smallholders just making a pittance, how are you going to do it better than them?

Not after money, just want to make a living doing something i think more worthwhile than my current job.

Cant think of a better reason than because i want to, guessing it worked for most other smallholders. I could go into eco friendly, rearing animals, way of life, wanting to rear rare breeds, wanting to provide a little to local community but you dont need a good reason to set up an estate agent and there is plenty of them? The viability side of it is confusing, i vaguely remember hearing something about being able to support someone but its not something that id plan to run with a big profit.

As for the business, the plan would be to make it as diverse as possible. Would probably be easier sticking to one area of interest but it mitigates some of the risk by having a few revenue streams.

Would try and avoid selling raw products and try to add value where possible. As an example avoid selling strawbs but sell the jam or cuttings etc. Definites would be poultry for meat and eggs. Although by the time it comes about things probably wouldve changed so will depend on the times where i would concentrate my efforts, just a case of working out where demands are.

Im sure theres plenty of years experience above me so i would be foolish to suggest i can do things better but i do think i could work out where to make enough money to make it viable for me. Whilst it might be easier in terms of planning just buying a place in the country it no longer becomes viable financially.


The new rules in wales, i think, would suit me perfectly, just a shame id prefer to live in england. Beautiful place though.


Thanks.

Sorry just out of interest if you dont mind me asking, how do you get on with yours? Guess you think its too over saturated? Would you only recommend not bothering?

Davesnave

spadoosh wrote: »

Not after money, just want to make a living doing something i think more worthwhile than my current job.

You and thousands of others!

The viability thing is there because there are thousands who'd do the same, given half a chance.

Remember, these days, you don't get a house on-site unless you can make a case for being there 24/7, so a few sheep or pigs aren't going to cut it with the planners.

To give you an example, I know someone who jumped through the hoops. They had tender plants and argued successfully that they needed to be on-hand in case of power cuts etc.

Have you considered buying an agriculturally-tied house? They are about 30% cheaper on average than the non-tied equivalents.

Davesnave

spadoosh wrote: »

Sorry just out of interest if you dont mind me asking, how do you get on with yours? Guess you think its too over saturated? Would you only recommend not bothering?

I get on just fine, because I'm retired from horticulture.

Bought an ag-tied smallholding, then hit 65 and retired....whoops! :rotfl:

Not bothering? No, I just wish I'd done this sooner, but had to earn a 'real' living/pension first.