Legal Charge

Gigervamp

I think that would be a good idea, speaking to one of her care team, or maybe the vulnerable adults team at social services. She might listen if someone else is saying the same thing, or they may be able to put something in place to stop it.

However, I fear that this isn't going to have a good ending for her, and it makes me sad. Poor thing, but she's lucky to have you as a friend.

Miroslav

Gigervamp wrote: »

I think that would be a good idea, speaking to one of her care team, or maybe the vulnerable adults team at social services. She might listen if someone else is saying the same thing, or they may be able to put something in place to stop it.

However, I fear that this isn't going to have a good ending for her, and it makes me sad. Poor thing, but she's lucky to have you as a friend.

Thanks.

I'll do my best although I can't be there 24/7 so I just hope she doesn't sign the thing before it's too late.

TBagpuss

Ther eare loads of probloems with this.
1. This will be classed as capital for the pur;psaoes of benefits, so she will betreated as having savigns of £47K.
2. Nothing in the letter explains when the charge will be repaid, whenther and in what circumstnaces she can demand her money, or what interest will be paid. Mostly, private charges take one of 2 forms. EIther the charge carries interest (usually specified as x% above base rate) OR the charge is for a % ofthe property value, so the amount payable is higher or lower in actual cash terms when it is repaid, to reflect any increase or decrease in house prices.

If your friend agrees to the charge which appears to be being suggested then she is efectively lending her brother the money, interest free, for an indefinate period of time and with no obvious way of forceing repayment.

It sucks.

If she says that she wants the propeyt sold, she may get a bit less than £47K but she will at least have it, and will not run into difficulties with deprivation of assets.

If her brother can't get a mortgage with what is efectively a 25% deposit then I would have doubts about his ability to affordto maintain or improve the property so the risk is that the security will reduce in value.

If your friend agrees, it might be best to write back to the solicitor who wrote to her (you could help her with hte letter) and say that it has been suggested by Brtoher but not agreed, and that she does not think she will be able to agree as the proposal would result in her losing her benefits, and in addtion, the suggestion appears to mean that she would be loaning the money interest free and with no repayment mechanism, which is not in her best interests,. Add in that she has mental health difficulties and would aks that any further letters are sent to her care-worker / support worker (if she has one) and that the lawyer should be aware that anything which comes back to them other than via the support worker is likely to have been signed under duress and that they should contact the support worker if they recieve any such documents.

Most lawyers would be extremely wary of proceedings if they had had such issued flagged up and while they don't have a duty of care to your friend as she is not their client, they would advise Brother that he should, for his own protection, ensure that there is no risk of any allegations of undue influence or inappropriate pressure.

if you do hear that she has been pressured into signing then encourage her to write immediately to the lawyers nad her brother to state that she signed under pressure and that she withdraws her consent and wishes the property to be sold.

Miroslav

TBagpuss wrote: »

Ther eare loads of probloems with this.
1. This will be classed as capital for the pur;psaoes of benefits, so she will betreated as having savigns of £47K.
2. Nothing in the letter explains when the charge will be repaid, whenther and in what circumstnaces she can demand her money, or what interest will be paid. Mostly, private charges take one of 2 forms. EIther the charge carries interest (usually specified as x% above base rate) OR the charge is for a % ofthe property value, so the amount payable is higher or lower in actual cash terms when it is repaid, to reflect any increase or decrease in house prices.

If your friend agrees to the charge which appears to be being suggested then she is efectively lending her brother the money, interest free, for an indefinate period of time and with no obvious way of forceing repayment.

It sucks.

If she says that she wants the propeyt sold, she may get a bit less than £47K but she will at least have it, and will not run into difficulties with deprivation of assets.

If her brother can't get a mortgage with what is efectively a 25% deposit then I would have doubts about his ability to affordto maintain or improve the property so the risk is that the security will reduce in value.

If your friend agrees, it might be best to write back to the solicitor who wrote to her (you could help her with hte letter) and say that it has been suggested by Brtoher but not agreed, and that she does not think she will be able to agree as the proposal would result in her losing her benefits, and in addtion, the suggestion appears to mean that she would be loaning the money interest free and with no repayment mechanism, which is not in her best interests,. Add in that she has mental health difficulties and would aks that any further letters are sent to her care-worker / support worker (if she has one) and that the lawyer should be aware that anything which comes back to them other than via the support worker is likely to have been signed under duress and that they should contact the support worker if they recieve any such documents.

Most lawyers would be extremely wary of proceedings if they had had such issued flagged up and while they don't have a duty of care to your friend as she is not their client, they would advise Brother that he should, for his own protection, ensure that there is no risk of any allegations of undue influence or inappropriate pressure.

if you do hear that she has been pressured into signing then encourage her to write immediately to the lawyers nad her brother to state that she signed under pressure and that she withdraws her consent and wishes the property to be sold.

It's a horrible situation for her as she could fall out with her family. They don't talk much, but with her mental health issues, falling out with anyone is a disaster in her eyes.

I can certainly help her write a letter. Hopefully it will be a letter declining the suggestion rather than a letter trying to sort out the mess after her signing it.

I'll keep the advice in mind, thank you to yourself and everyone on this thread. I will update when need be. It's been a few days since the letter and I suspect the brother will be in touch soon to add some pressure (if he hasn't already).

Miroslav

I've had a message saying "Sorted out the house situation with a friend. Thanks for your advice."

Replied back asking for more detail but heard nothing.

Why do I fear the worst?

G_M

Because the worst has happened.

however, there is nothing further you can do.

It is not your problem or responsibility.

Miroslav

Update:

She's not signed anything. She has taken advice and someone is helping her find a solicitor although she cannot afford one so is hoping to find a free 30 minute appointment or something.

She has now spoken to me again and i've explained everything again and I think she's understood it more this time. She says she will not sign it and is allowing me to write an email to the solicitor who is arranging this and to tell them she can not accept the proposal.

I've taken on board everything anyone has said on this thread which is very much appreciated, but if anyone has any final bit of advice before I send the email, i'm all ears.

Thanks.

Miroslav

I'm rubbish at letters.

Will this be ok?

Dear xxxxx

Your Ref: xxxxx

Re: Transfer and charge of xxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated 18th May 2016 regarding the above.

As suggested by yourselves, I have taken further advice.

You say in your letter that the suggestion of the transfer and legal charge had been agreed. At no stage was I informed of this suggestion, therefore I had no agreement in place.

Having taken advice I am informed that due to being on benefits, any acceptance would be deemed as deprivation of assets and I would lose my entitlement to benefits because it will be treated as myself having savings of £47,500, thus having no money to live on , so I would require the money from any sale of the house , and as their is no date on the transfer or legal charge, this money may never be forthcoming.

--
That is as far as I have got.

She's now told me that she's been getting numerous phone calls from her brothers/solicitors for the past week or so but not been answering.

Added: I'm looking at all the small print closely and it says the money will be repaid to her on either Brother 1 being able to obtain a mortgage or the sale of the house.

On one of the forms, her signature (or initials) is signed in pencil against one of the bits she needs to sign. Could be just a pointer, but looks dodgy.

Also, just been told, her forename and middle name is spelt wrong on it as well.

At least she's adamant she's not signing anyway. She's now seeing something dodgy is going on.

Cheeky_Monkey

Miroslav wrote: »

On one of the forms, her signature (or initials) is signed in pencil against one of the bits she needs to sign. Could be just a pointer, but looks dodgy.

That's completely normal - all solicitors do that so that the person signs in the right place and not where the witness should sign - or vice versa

Miroslav

Cheeky_Monkey wrote: »

That's completely normal - all solicitors do that so that the person signs in the right place and not where the witness should sign - or vice versa

Thanks for that.

Nothing to worry about there then.