P60 and P45 now self employed

johnbfan

My son left a job to go self employed. He left the day before Good Friday and went self employed the day after Easter Monday.

He signed on for self assessment and has been asked to complete a tax return.

He has not received a P45 or P60 from the employer he left. In fact, he may not get either from them. They are not interested in producing either document for him.

How do we go about filling a self assessment in. He paid tax on the job but doesn't know how much because he never got a pay slip either. Was just paid straight into his bank.

HappyMJ

johnbfan wrote: »

My son left a job to go self employed. He left the day before Good Friday and went self employed the day after Easter Monday.

He signed on for self assessment and has been asked to complete a tax return.

He has not received a P45 or P60 from the employer he left. In fact, he may not get either from them. They are not interested in producing either document for him.

How do we go about filling a self assessment in. He paid tax on the job but doesn't know how much because he never got a pay slip either. Was just paid straight into his bank.

Has he asked for a P45?

I'd ring the local tax office and find out if income tax and NI was being paid.

Even if no tax or NI was deducted he must declare the income he has earned on his self assessment by the end of January following the end of the tax year. He can use the figures on his bank statements to remind himself how much he was paid.

Even if he's paid in cash he needs to declare all money received even if there is no other record of it.

johnbfan

He's asked several times for a P60 and P45 and gets told its in the post. Still waiting.

He has no record of what he was paid except what's been put in his bank by the employer he left. He earned nothing at the self employed job in the few days he before 6th April. He is getting worried because he doesn't want to be hit by fines for not providing information he doesn't have and can't get.

HappyMJ

johnbfan wrote: »

He's asked several times for a P60 and P45 and gets told its in the post. Still waiting.

He has no record of what he was paid except what's been put in his bank by the employer he left. He earned nothing at the self employed job in the few days he before 6th April. He is getting worried because he doesn't want to be hit by fines for not providing information he doesn't have and can't get.

He has the amounts on his bank statement. Add them up. That will do. Keep asking for the P45. If he can't get the exact figures then try putting your best guess down. Anything is better than nothing. If he tries his best they will not give him a penalty.

Write down why he came to the figure he did. If he's ever investigated they'll want to know how he got the figure. By then he may have forgotten how he calculated it.....so write it all down.

johnbfan

He's requested a P45 and P60 several times. They just don't seem interested in producing either for him. Nor were they interested in giving him pay slips either. Just money straight into the bank.

As far as he knows the amount he received in his bank from the employer was paid after tax etc. He was with them for a few years and previous P60's showed tax etc being paid.

So all he can do is go through his bank statements for the year and total up the actual pay he received and hope the tax man looks at his full employment record. God this is stressful.

HappyMJ

johnbfan wrote: »

He's requested a P45 and P60 several times. They just don't seem interested in producing either for him. Nor were they interested in giving him pay slips either. Just money straight into the bank.

As far as he knows the amount he received in his bank from the employer was paid after tax etc. He was with them for a few years and previous P60's showed tax etc being paid.

So all he can do is go through his bank statements for the year and total up the actual pay he received and hope the tax man looks at his full employment record. God this is stressful.

Local tax office will know if Income Tax and National Insurance was taken off so ring them.

Don't stress about it. The HMRC can be quite reasonable.

johnbfan

Thanks. I know we have some time to do this but he didn't realise he would be asked for a self assessment after only being self employed seven days. He received no pay for those days, having to work a week in hand too. He is a self employed trainee carpet fitter and we are totally confused about all this tax man stuff.

We will get the hang of it one day.

HappyMJ

johnbfan wrote: »

Thanks. I know we have some time to do this but he didn't realise he would be asked for a self assessment after only being self employed seven days. He received no pay for those days, having to work a week in hand too. He is a self employed trainee carpet fitter and we are totally confused about all this tax man stuff.

We will get the hang of it one day.

Probably because he put his start date down as last tax year. Easter was in late March. A self assessment will be due....even though as you say it's just one week.

He would have incurred business expenses during that week. Expenses such as travel to and from the client. Those expenses will cause him a taxable loss. That loss can be carried forward and will offset his profit in 2016/17 reducing the tax payable.

The invoice would have been issued in 2016/17 for work done in 2015/16. The income although not received last tax year should be put down on the 2015/16 self assessment...but it doesn't usually matter too much if it's not. As long as it's all put on the 2016/17 self assessment it should even itself out.

I'm not really sure if he's genuinely self employed.

A trainee would very rarely be self employed. They would be employed.

Sncjw

I've got to ask how is he self employed and a trainee at the same time. Is the company who is working with telling him to be self employed.

Are they dictating his hours and days

johnbfan

He is working with a carpet fitter but the man is training him up they are both self employed. Not sure how its working but he needs to do a self assessment. Eventually all profits will be shared 50/50.

The person who should be providing him with a P60 and P45 has been asked by son's line manager on several occasions for the document. That person is saying she may do it some time. They are peeved because my son left them. He was maintenance man and on minimum pay. The jobs he did saved them a lot of money and now they have to get someone in at a higher pay rate. They are not happy and his line manager believes they are deliberately withholding the documents out of spite. Poor behaviour from someone who should set an example.

LittleVoice

He is not due a P60 for tax year 2015-16 because he was not employed by the company on 5th April 2016.