UKPC ticket for parking on a private road

Bluecoll

My car was parked on a road in Manchester. When the driver returned to the vehicle there was a ticket on the windscreen from UKPC. Further investigation found a sign on the opposite side of the road high up on a lamp post which - though extremely hard to read as it was well above head height and water had beaded on the surface - appeared to proclaim this was a private road with no parking allowed, followed by the usual threats of a ticket.

Having been to the location subsequently I feel very aggrieved as:
There was no indication at the entrance to the road to show it was private.
The signs were high up to the left and parallel to the road so they weren't visible from the drivers seat when driving into the road.
Where the car was parked there were no road markings such as yellow lines to show it shouldn't have been parked there.
Anyone parking where my car was, getting out of the drivers side door and turning right (away from the side of the road where the signs were) wouldn't have seen anything to indicate they shouldn't have parked there.
As there was no indication the road was private any sane person would believe they were parking legally and would not go out of their way to further investigate if there were signs nearby telling them they'll get a ticket if they park there.

I have been past the same spot on many occasions since the incident and there have always been cars parked exactly where I was, most of them with tickets on their windscreens. I don't believe people would park there knowing they are likely to get a ticket. The signs appear to have been placed, legally or not, so they are very difficult to spot so as to maximise ticket distribution.

As the registered keeper of the vehicle I appealed to UKPC who have written to me three times now insisting I declare the driver of the car before they will give me a POPLA code. Needless to say the identity of the driver will not be disclosed. They also completely ignored my request for details of their contract with the landowner.

I am well aware UKPC will turn down my appeal. I'm not sure why they haven't already as they state that after 28 days from the date of the ticket (Jan 4th, over four months ago) if the driver details are not forthcoming they'll go after the registered keeper (me).

Assuming I ever get issued with a POPLA code I aim to fight it on the grounds of inadequate signage. In fact, the last time I went past the scene of the crime the two signs on the lamp posts had been lowered and one turned perpendicular to the road, surely indicating they were incorrectly placed before. However, I can't find anything on this forum or on the web about correct placement of signage on a private road as opposed to a car park. Can anyone help?

Also my parking on a private road was not, to my knowledge, inconveniencing anyone so how can a fine of £100 (which just happens to be the legal maximum before they have to justify their actions) represent a fair sum of their loss due to me parking there?

Ps does anyone else find their "assuring you of our best intentions at all times" condescending and annoying (I'm being polite). Surely "assuring you we are trying to con you out of your hard earned money" would be more appropriate?

The latest letter in full:

As already requested on 27/01/2016 and 14/03/2016, to which we are yet to receive a reply.
In order to make a final decision regarding your appeal, please can you provide a copy of the drivers details so we can liaise with them directly to our Appeals Department within 21 days of the date of this letter.
All of our signage is fully compliant with the guidelines set out within the BPA Code of Practice and we reject the notion that it is in any way unclear or ambiguous. As per our photographic evidence which you may view online, there was a sign in clear view of your vehicle at the time of issue clearly stating the parking terms and conditions on site.
Paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, states that we must inform the registered keeper that the driver of a vehicle is required to pay the parking charge in full. It also notes that as we do not know the driver’s name or current postal address, the registered keeper, if they were not the driver at the time, should inform the operator (i.e. us) of the name and current address of the driver and pass the notice to them.
The Act also warns that if, at the end of the period of 28 days (beginning with the day after the Parking Charge is sent), the parking charge has not been paid in full and the operator does not know both the name and current
address of the driver, the operator has the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from the
registered keeper. This warning is given under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to us complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act (which we consider we do comply with, to the letter).
Failure to provide this information will give us no alternative other than to make our final decision based on the
previous information received, at this stage a POPLA verification code will be provided.
Please can you ensure that your parking charge details are attached when sending further correspondence.
The Parking Charge has been on hold whilst under appeal and may be settled in full at the reduced rate of £60.
PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER. UKPC REGULARLY TAKES MOTORISTS TO COURT WHO IGNORE THEIR PARKING CHARGES.
Yours faithfully,
Appeals Department
UK Parking Control Limited
© UK

Northlakes

Three things come to mind.
You are correct not to reveal the driver identity as instructed in the NEWBIES thread.
I'm sure that a photo of the signage would help in order to give advice.
Where did I see that a contract cannot be formed on a prohibition notice?

Bluecoll

Northlakes wrote: »

I'm sure that a photo of the signage would help in order to give advice.

I have photos of the signage and the road but as a newbie am unable to post them :-(

Umkomaas

After 35 days UKPC will issue you a POPLA code, regardless of what they feel is missing from your initial appeal, so there's no purpose in any further communication. Your links with UKPC are now complete and POPLA will be your next port of call.

Don't waste any further time with UKPC, use it more profitably in researching in readiness for your POPLA appeal.

Coupon-mad

Just wait it out a bit longer, they can keep digging and delaying. They are showing how desperate they are.

By June you *could* decide enough is enough and email the BPA. Point out that UKPC have prevaricated for FIVE MONTHS, begging no less than three times with the same misleading letter to be told who was driving. Not once have they offered an actual POPLA code so you wish to complain about this unreasonable delay and breach of appeals procedure, which is similar to when Parking Eye got their wrists slapped in Spring 2015, for resurrecting cases after parking them for eight months from June 2014 pending 'further info'.

You can say, surely the limit has been reached and exceeded here, bearing in mind there is nothing exceptional about the appeal to take it beyond the usual 35 days, let alone 5 months. You can say you are aware the BPA stopped Parking Eye from 'leaving cases in limbo' for months with no POPLA code and so what are they going to do about UKPC? Finish by saying the driver will not be named and no Notice to Keeper was ever served so the question of keeper liability is a non-starter, which you wished to have a fair chance to point out to POPLA (along with significant signage issues at this site) well before now.