Advice needed please!

CK1223

Last Saturday we bought a dog from a classifieds ad. It's more of a puppy really - it's either 6 or 7 months old. The guy did not give me a receipt.
The dog was being left home alone 14 hours a day, didn't own a toy and hadn't been walked. The following day the dog had a seizure.
We took it to the vets first thing Monday morning and they advised us that the pup has a bad ear infection that hadn't been treated, the pup is very overweight and has absolutely no muscle mass whatsoever because it hasn't been walked. We have paid for his antibiotics, worming tablet (he had never been wormed) and also paid to have him chipped because the previous owner hadn't had the dog chipped.
The dog didn't own a proper lead, harness, bed, water and food bowls, toy etc so we've had to go out and fork out for all this.

The previous owner sent me a text last night saying that he wants the dog back.

A few days previous his ex girlfriend had added me on Facebook and posted a rather lengthy "status" about how her 'crazy ex' had stolen her dog. The only way she would have known who I was (to be able to add me on FB) would be if he had told her my name, so they must be in regular contact. The advert for the pup was live for a month before we went and bought it, so if he had stolen the dog then she hasn't tried very hard to get it back.

Does anyone know my legal standing on this one? What with her saying that he stole the dog from her it's got me a bit worried.

Caroline_a

First point delete gf from your lists of FB friends. Ignore all texts from previous owner - you have vet's assessment of dog's condition and the dog is now chipped in your name. If it was me I would just ignore them both, the dog is obviously in better hands now, let them do their worst!

I would also consider speaking to the vet about vaccinations as these may have not been done either.

CK1223

Thanks for getting back to me Caroline, not the best start to a Monday morning but I'm flapping over it as there's NO way I'm gonna let the dog go back to that hovel

The previous owner did say that he'd been vaccinated but I rang the dog's previous vet and have asked them to fax over his medical history so that I can be certain, as the previous owner didn't give me a vaccination card as proof.
I'm going to delete the gf now but going to screenshot any communication I've had with her just in case. Not sure if it makes a difference her saying that the dog is hers but stolen and sold. The pup was registered at his previous vets under the name of the guy who sold it to me, so there's no mention of her anywhere as far as records are concerned (as it wasn't chipped or KC reg)

jrtfan

They broke the law by transferring the dog without a microchip. Since 6 April, I believe the onus is on the current owner to notify PetLog of a change in details of the registered keeper and the failure on their part both to get the dog chipped, and to notify change in keepership, can carey a hefty fine. The woman claiming to have owned the dog may decide it's not worth her while pursuing the matter if by doing so she risks being fined at least £500. But you could have a word with citizens advice meanwhile, just to ascertain where you stand legally in case this woman does decide to push the issue.

jrtfan

Also I would screen shot that advertisement too while you're at it. Just in case.

CK1223

Thanks jrtfan, I hadn't even considered the microchip law. I have no idea why the dog wasn't microchipped or wormed as they had it on the Healthy Pet Club plan which means you get the chip and worming treatment free.
I've screen-shotted absolutely everything. Every text and reply, (luckily we had every conversation by text so I can prove that he sold the dog to me and how much I paid for it), the advert for the dog, all conversations with his ex etc, and have emailed them to myself just in case my phone breaks or I lose it. I'm gonna ring Citizen's Advice later today but until then will be ignoring all further communication from them

jrtfan

Sounds like the dog was a 5-minute wonder for them, from what you've said. In any case, I would suspect (although I don't know the law) that her issue would be with him, as having sold the dog on, rather than with you as the buyer because you bought in good faith. I think you're doing the right thing to ignore any further communications from them at least until you've spoken to Citizens Advice and heard what they have to say.

Good luck, please come back here to update us?

NewShadow

From a legal view, you bought the dog. It belongs to you - BUT.

I would suggest you have a copy of the advert and any messages exchanged with regards the sale, as well as the vets report.

This is because you cannot legally buy stolen property. (As reassurance, it's only an offence to knowingly buy stolen goods, but even unknowing you may be required to return the animal to the legal owner)

If (and I suggest only if) the GF contacts the police and reports the theft, the local constabulary will be in touch to interview you, and you may be required to return the dog.

If the vets report is as you outline, you may retain custody of the dog until the investigation as to the BFs right to sell the animal has concluded - but you should make the case for the welfare of the animal and be clear you would be willing to return it at the conclusion of the investigation if required.

The reason for the screenshots and similar is to support the case of the BF having stolen the dog and you having purchased it in good faith - just in case you are identified as the perpetrator.

Be aware there is a chance the BF/GF may attempt to steal the animal from you if they know where you live. Consider what evidence you may need to retain/secure to protect yourself from this possibility.

HTH

jrtfan

NewShadow wrote: »

From a legal view, you bought the dog. It belongs to you - BUT.

I would suggest you have a copy of the advert and any messages exchanged with regards the sale, as well as the vets report.

This is because you cannot legally buy stolen property. (As reassurance, it's only an offence to knowingly buy stolen goods, but even unknowing you may be required to return the animal to the legal owner)

If (and I suggest only if) the GF contacts the police and reports the theft, the local constabulary will be in touch to interview you, and you may be required to return the dog.

If the vets report is as you outline, you may retain custody of the dog until the investigation as to the BFs right to sell the animal has concluded - but you should make the case for the welfare of the animal and be clear you would be willing to return it at the conclusion of the investigation if required.

The reason for the screenshots and similar is to support the case of the BF having stolen the dog and you having purchased it in good faith - just in case you are identified as the perpetrator.

Be aware there is a chance the BF/GF may attempt to steal the animal from you if they know where you live. Consider what evidence you may need to retain/secure to protect yourself from this possibility.

HTH

Would you think this very likely, though, in view of the fact that she's broken the law by not having her dog microchipped?

https://www.petlog.org.uk/pet-owner/compulsory-microchipping-for-dog-owners/

According to PetLog, if a dispute arises over keepership of a chipped animal and it can't be resolved between the 2 parties involved, it then becomes a civil matter. Would the police not be likely to take the same view in the OP's circumstances, in your opinion?

NewShadow

I would suggest that depends on if the dog was actually stolen - if someone stole one of my cats (ignoring they're all chipped) I'd happily pay a fine of in excess £500 to have them returned.

That's me any my animals.

Ignoring that.

To an extent - now the dog is microchipped, there's no case to answer.

This is because, if a dog is found not to be microchipped the 'keeper' is issued a notice requiring them to have the dog chipped, they will have 21 days to do this.

If the keeper does not microchip their dogs within 21 days of the served notice, then they will be liable to pay a fine of £500.

It's worth noting, microchipping is not be proof of 'ownership'.

ETA - reading the link you provided, it's more suggesting domestic arrangements - custody of an animal after a divorce would be civil.

Theft is always judicial.

jrtfan

That's a shame because from what the OP has told us, the animal's interests would be best served by remaining with the OP now. It would be good if the prospect of being fined and any associated hassle could serve to deter the original owner from pursuing any claim she may have to a dog she seems not to care a great deal about anyway. Thanks for the clarification though.