querying PCN & Notice to Keeper

AJ16

My son parked in a Euro Car Parks open park in Manchester in April, he overstayed by around 18 minutes as it took a while to load filming equipment back into his car after a student project.

A letter arrived 11 days later addressed to 'Mr' and then our surname, it didn't have my son's initial, in fact the reason that I opened it was because I assumed it was addressed to me as the householder.

I'm wondering if they were correctly served for 2 reasons-

1) Our son was still at University in Manchester & we were very preoccupied at the time so the PCN was not responded to within 28 days.

2) The PCN has two photos of his front number plate, on on entry and the other on exit, they just show the plate, but there is nothing to link them to the car park. I know that if you stray into a bus lane then you get a penalty notice with a photograph which shows your vehicle at the relevant location. Also the image of his front plate on exist seems to have been take at the same height as the plate itself possibly suggesting a hand held camera right in front of the car.

Would either of these facts warrant challenging the valid of their claim?

pappa_golf

who,s full name is the cars V5 in?

AJ16

Hi thanks for getting back, the car is registered in my son's name

fisherjim

You have entered the world of private parking tickets where anything goes.
You are clutching at straws, forget the height of the camera some car parks have anpr cameras in a box at the entrance and exit.

Don't treat this as an official ticket it's not, it's an invoice, and nothing like a council bus lane ticket.
Follow the advice in the newbies thread, never phone the PPC or their follow up debt collector muppets who are powerless.

Ralph-y

the newbie thread you need to read is here ....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

good luck

Ralph:cool:

AJ16

Thanks I've just had a look at the Newbies thread, I also looked at the MSE thread last week.

Sure what appeal grounds we have and we are beyond the 28 days to appeal. Is this problem?

What happens if someone does not receive the original PCN or subsequent NTK, e.g. like they the letter didn't arrive or they are on holiday?

What if I just pay the £60 now rather than the £100? We are tempted just to sit it out though?

thanks

Coupon-mad

Appeal anyway, NOW, tonight.

Euro Car Parks are sooooo easy to beat it is laughable. You would be mad to pay and if you paid £60 they would add your name to a mugs list and pursue you with debt letters for the rest, knowing you are a likely 'victim' who has paid them money before. FORGET IT - YOU ARE NOT PAYING.

ECP are odd in that they post a PCN (which is the one you got in April). Then (really unusually) they follow it a month later with a 'Notice to Keeper' effectively giving a second appeal window. Rare for a PCN that was posted in the first place! Your son IS in that appeal window.

DO NOT read the MSE article on private parking tickets; do NOT use the MSE article template 'appeal' which talks about the story of what happened and says who was driving. NONONONO.

Just email ECP the usual template FROM THE NEWBIES THREAD. Nothing is different here.

The normal response from ECP is...nothing at all...and after 35 days of silence you can then complain to the BPA by email. Then ECP will say they 'cancelled it earlier' and show a ghost email. And it will be gone.

AJ16

Thanks CP. Is this the Newbie template that you refer to in response to the Notice to Keeper?-

" Re PCN number:

I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge, issued under an alleged contract and the driver has not been identified, I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company? I require their contact details.
2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?
3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority.
4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
6. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Answer yes or no.
7. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.
8. Please provide a copy of the signs that you can evidence were on site and which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion, as well as all photographs taken of this vehicle.

If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.

However, in my opinion, there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service - which lacks any transparency and possibly any independence from the IPC - unlike the alternative offered by the British Parking Association, POPLA, which is transparent and has been shown to be independent.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to such contact and to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your costs which are not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.

Yours faithfully,"

Coupon-mad

No, that's the one for IPC members. You need the BPA one (please do NOT quote it here, drives me mad...).

AJ16

Thanks,

Can I use the BPA template and email in even if it's my son who is the registered keeper? I see it mentions about hard to read signage, but I can't verify that, he did overstay slightly but the 'penalty' seems excessive. Do I put that or just stick to the template?

cheers

Ralph-y

use the template 'as is' and send it in your son (keeper) name .......

you are after a POPLA code .... as most if not all appeals to PPC fail ...

do not miss dead lines ....

Good luck

Ralph:cool: