10 minute grace period?

NoviceAngel

Hi All,

I normally hang around the flight delay forums, which is my home but I'm a bit out of my depth here.

Today, I received a PCN from Leeds City Council for parking longer than 30 mins in a restricted '30 mins free and no return within two hour parking area. I'm just about ready to pay up, fair cop and all that but read that there should be a 10 minute grace period?

I was observed the exact time I parked my car, 11.38 the PCN was issued at 12.15 - some 37 mins later therefore over by 7 mins. Actually 8 mins because I saw the patrol officer walking away just as I returned so would have taken me another minute before I drove off.

I notice the first stage of an appeal is to Leeds City Council. Should I be able to claim that the officer failed to allow for the 10 minute grace period?

Any help appreciated or any pointers to threads I should read would be grateful.

Cheers

NoviceAngel

Ralph-y

hi and welcome to the forum ....

you would be best served by visiting

http://forums.pepipoo.com/

we tend to major in parking on private land

good luck

Ralph:cool:

NoviceAngel

Thanks for the quick reply Ralph.

I will do thank you.

Captain_Krunch

NoviceAngel wrote: »

Hi All,

I normally hang around the flight delay forums, which is my home but I'm a bit out of my depth here.

Theres a flight delay forum!!! Excellent.

NoviceAngel

Just to help any other members, this info came from Incandescent on pepipoo

From the Statutory Guidance 2015: -

QUOTE
Grace periods
8.11 Parking policy should be designed to enable people to access the community and carry on their business as easily as possible. Whilst it is important to undertake enforcement, to prevent abuse of parking facilities to the detriment of the majority, enforcement should be sensitive, fair and proportionate. This would not be the case if a driver received a penalty for returning to their vehicle only moments after the expiry of a period of permitted parking. Therefore, from 6 April 2015, the law requires that a penalty charge must not be issued to a vehicle which has stayed parked in a parking place on a road or in a local authority car park beyond the permitted parking period for a period of time not exceeding 10 minutes. The grace period applies to on-street and off-street parking places provided under traffic orders, whether the period of parking is paid for or free. Any penalty charge issued before expiry of the 10-minute grace period would be illegal, unless the vehicle itself is parked unlawfully (e.g. where the motorist has not paid any required parking fee or displayed a parking ticket where required)

Coupon-mad

Captain_Krunch wrote: »

Theres a flight delay forum!!! Excellent.

I got £3800 (including compensation which was almost unheard of during the ash-cloud shenanigans) from Monarch, based on what I learnt from Cityboy on that forum six years ago. Monarch were shocking and deserved everything thrown at them for their treatment of passengers then.

Well worth a look if you have had a flight delay of more than 3 hours within the last few years.

NoviceAngel

REPLY FROM COUNCIL

Thank you for your letter of 12th May 2016 regarding the above PCN.

I have noted your comments. You have states that you were 7 minutes over the permitted 30 minutes parking allowed in this location. You have states that a 10 minute grace period should have been allowed.

Grace periods are allowed for certain contraventions but this is not one of them.

Your vehicle was first seen at 11.38 hours parked where a sign is present stating 'Mon-Sat 8am-6pm 30 minutes no return 30 minutes except permit holders.'

I have considered everything in your letter but do not feel that you have made grounds for cancelling the PCN. I have rejected your appeal fot the above reasons.

Well as you can guess, I'm shocked and surprised! Are the council wrong? I really thought that the 10 minute grace period WOULD apply?

Any further views, much appreciated. For completeness I've asked for help on pepipoo also.

NoviceAngel

Coupon-mad

You need to see what pepipoo say. The 10 minutes grace period only applies to certain contraventions, that is true, and without looking it up I can't recall exactly which. Pepipoo posters will know.

NoviceAngel

This post is info to our MSE users that search for info on the 10 min grace period..

Letter to Council

NoviceAngel wrote:

Mark Jefford
Parking Manager
Parking Services
PO Box 139,
Leeds
LS9 1AA

5th June 2016

PCN : ***********


Dear Mr Jefford,

https://www.theaa.com/newsroom/news-2015/co...ace-period.html

Which states.. ‘Consider where you park - the 10-minute rule does not apply to yellow lines, but does apply to short stay free parking, such as ‘park up to two hours, no return in two’.

https://www.westminster.gov.uk/deregulation...ing-enforcement
Which states ,,’ From 6 April 2015, the Council will be giving a 10 minute grace period to vehicles parked in dedicated parking bays, where a period of permitted parking ends and controls then come into force.
The 10 minute grace period applies in parking bays in the following instances;
• upon expiry of a permitted ‘free’ parking period during controlled hours (eg a maximum stay)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/56...gulation/2/made

Grace periods
8.11 Parking policy should be designed to enable people to access the community and carry on their business as easily as possible. Whilst it is important to undertake enforcement, to prevent abuse of parking facilities to the detriment of the majority, enforcement should be sensitive, fair and proportionate. This would not be the case if a driver received a penalty for returning to their vehicle only moments after the expiry of a period of permitted parking. Therefore, from 6 April 2015, the law requires that a penalty charge must not be issued to a vehicle which has stayed parked in a parking place on a road or in a local authority car park beyond the permitted parking period for a period of time not exceeding 10 minutes. The grace period applies to on-street and off-street parking places provided under traffic orders, whether the period of parking is paid for or free. Any penalty charge issued before expiry of the 10-minute grace period would be illegal, unless the vehicle itself is parked unlawfully (e.g. where the motorist has not paid any required parking fee or displayed a parking ticket where required)


I refer you to the above and our correspondence, in particular your departments emails dated 27th May 2016 sent by your appeals officer Amanda Mullan.

Even at this late stage I invite you to intervene in this matter personally and educate your officers in respect of the law. A period of 'permitted parking' is not limited to pay and display bays but may apply to free parking, as in my case. Should you be in any doubt, then please refer to the Explanatory Memorandum at the end of the regulations and/or your legal officers.

I am hopeful that you will review this matter personally, see the error of the authority's position in this matter and cancel the PCN. People make mistakes and even at this stage I am prepared to write this off as being nothing more than an error by officers which can be remedied by retraining. But if you do not cancel the PCN despite your position being untenable, then I shall press this matter to adjudication at which I must prevail and in respect of which I shall submit a claim for costs.

Yours Sincerely

Reply from Mark Jefford at Leeds City Council

Leeds_City_Council wrote:

Thank you for your letter . I hope an email reply is acceptable.

You are correct about the 10 minute grace period, we have always applied this in Leeds until this incident.

Civil enforcement officers have been trained to allow the 10 minutes and as we use electronic timing there is no excuse for getting it wrong. In this case the officer has been less than diligent and made a mistake. I don’t know why this is, he can’t offer any explanation so I can only suggest that he was not concentrating properly. Because the mistake is rare the appeals officer has not had to deal with it before and has misinterpreted the law as you have pointed out. On being challenged she should have sought further advice but did not do so.

Clearly the whole case has been poorly dealt with and I apologise for this. I have reminded the staff of the correct application of the rules. I have cancelled the ticket so you should hear no more about it.

Regards

Mark Jefford
Parking Manager
Leeds City Council

beamerguy

Leeds Council employ people who don't know what they are doing ?

"Because the mistake is rare the appeals officer has not had to deal with it before and has misinterpreted the law as you have pointed out. On being challenged she should have sought further advice but did not do so."

They should now go back on everything this appeals officer has handled and if found faulty they should refund

Something the press in Leeds might like to take up on behalf of the people

Well done, you found a fault in the system

NoviceAngel

Thanks beamerguy, couldn't agree more. How many just paid the £25 penalty quickly to avoid the full cost of £50.

I knew I had the law on my side, together with Pepipoo forums, so I dug my heals in....

Good result!