Pip taking nutrition

Confuseddot

Hi,

Another question for my mate with the house issue, its not looking good on any front.

Anyways she just got her decision re pip and its gone from enhanced to standard with the main difference being that she got 4 points last time for "Needs prompting to be able to take nutrition." This time 0 as she wasn't on any special nutritional supplement and had no weight loss. Nothing has changed and her CPN filled in the form and was with her at both assessments, the last one being april 2015. Apparently her CPN said at the assessment that she was a terrible eater and that she phones her and encourages her to eat and wash etc

How do you go about asking for the report and get a mandatory reconsideration ? She was a bit vague and panicking even more re money.

thanks

HappyMJ

Confuseddot wrote: »

Hi,

Another question for my mate with the house issue, its not looking good on any front.

Anyways she just got her decision re pip and its gone from enhanced to standard with the main difference being that she got 4 points last time for "Needs prompting to be able to take nutrition." This time 0 as she wasn't on any special nutritional supplement and had no weight loss. Nothing has changed and her CPN filled in the form and was with her at both assessments, the last one being april 2015. Apparently her CPN said at the assessment that she was a terrible eater and that she phones her and encourages her to eat and wash etc

How do you go about asking for the report and get a mandatory reconsideration ? She was a bit vague and panicking even more re money.

thanks

I wouldn't have thought a telephone call to someone who can prepare food and eat without supervision would count enough as "prompting". I would have thought that "prompting" would require a physical presence to ensure the task has been carried out sufficiently. No harm in trying though.

pmlindyloo

A good explanation here:

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Challenging-a-Personal-Independence-Payment-decisi/What-are-my-options#guide-content

I suggest that your friend gets in contact with her CPN again to help/support her with the mandatory decision/appeal.

pmlindyloo

HappyMJ wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought a telephone call to someone who can prepare food and eat without supervision would count enough as "prompting". I would have thought that "prompting" would require a physical presence to ensure the task has been carried out sufficiently. No harm in trying though.

The PIP assessment Guide refers to the different kinds of 'intervention'

Supervision is a need for the continuous presence of another
person for the purpose of ensuring the claimant’s safety to avoid
a serious adverse event from occurring. The risk must be likely
to occur in the absence of such supervision. To apply
supervision must be required for the full duration of the activity.

• Prompting is support provided by another person by reminding
or encouraging a claimant to undertake or complete a task or
explaining it to them but not physically helping them. To apply,
this only needs to be required for part of the activity.

• Assistance is support that requires the presence and physical
intervention of another person to help the claimant complete the
activity, including doing some, but not all of the activity in
question. To apply, this only needs to be required for part of the
activity.

Prompting does not mention the physical presence of another person whereas assistance and supervision does.

Not saying you are wrong but it could certainly be argued that telephoning would count as prompting. Having said that I suspect it would also depend upon the frequency of the telephone calls so it might be worth worth adding 'every day' or whatever.

Alice_Walker

I wonder if the lack of points is due to the lack of frequency of CPN input. It seems unlikely a CPN would have the time to call their client several times a day to prompt washing/ dressing/ eating etc. Also being a "terrible eater" is a vague term, and suggests poor choices rather than a need for support. Did the CPN actually say this, is there a documented history of disordered eating?

Confuseddot

pmlindyloo wrote: »

The PIP assessment Guide refers to the different kinds of 'intervention'

Supervision is a need for the continuous presence of another
person for the purpose of ensuring the claimant’s safety to avoid
a serious adverse event from occurring. The risk must be likely
to occur in the absence of such supervision. To apply
supervision must be required for the full duration of the activity.

• Prompting is support provided by another person by reminding
or encouraging a claimant to undertake or complete a task or
explaining it to them but not physically helping them. To apply,
this only needs to be required for part of the activity.

• Assistance is support that requires the presence and physical
intervention of another person to help the claimant complete the
activity, including doing some, but not all of the activity in
question. To apply, this only needs to be required for part of the
activity.

Prompting does not mention the physical presence of another person whereas assistance and supervision does.

Not saying you are wrong but it could certainly be argued that telephoning would count as prompting. Having said that I suspect it would also depend upon the frequency of the telephone calls so it might be worth worth adding 'every day' or whatever.

Thanks :T

Seems strange that she got it before nothing has changed and now doesn't and that the prompting from her CPN was ok for preparing food but not eating it. To be fair she goes for days without eating much at all, maybe some popcorn or something, and then on good days maybe has one meal but it usually junk empty calories. If anything she has put on weight rather than losing it, i think her body is just a bit confused about whats going on.

Confuseddot

pmlindyloo wrote: »

A good explanation here:

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Challenging-a-Personal-Independence-Payment-decisi/What-are-my-options#guide-content

I suggest that your friend gets in contact with her CPN again to help/support her with the mandatory decision/appeal.

CPN off sick so she having a right paddy and i trying my best but i not feeling great either so its like the blind leading the blind.

Diary

Just to answer your last question. She will need to write for a mandatory reconsideration. She will need to write for a copy of the report.

You will be told others on here to phone but phoning for MR can easily mean you go out of time for MR as phone calls get forgotten..

It is vital not to wait for the report to do the MR you will very likely go out of time if you do.

Although DWP impose no timelines on themselves they do impose them on the claimant and it's vital you stick to the timescales.

Confuseddot

Alice_Walker wrote: »

I wonder if the lack of points is due to the lack of frequency of CPN input. It seems unlikely a CPN would have the time to call their client several times a day to prompt washing/ dressing/ eating etc. Also being a "terrible eater" is a vague term, and suggests poor choices rather than a need for support. Did the CPN actually say this, is there a documented history of disordered eating?

Wasn't at the meeting so not sure what was said that was just how my friend put it, as mentioned before nothing has changed so why entitled before and not now. When she is not prompting washing/dressing/eating tends not to happen much.

HappyMJ

Confuseddot wrote: »

Thanks :T

Seems strange that she got it before nothing has changed and now doesn't and that the prompting from her CPN was ok for preparing food but not eating it. To be fair she goes for days without eating much at all, maybe some popcorn or something, and then on good days maybe has one meal but it usually junk empty calories. If anything she has put on weight rather than losing it, i think her body is just a bit confused about whats going on.

Making poor food choices isn't a disability though. How many people don't eat balanced diets in the UK? Loads...

She can eat something without prompting when she's hungry.

Supervision gets 2 points and prompting gets 4 points so doesn't it make sense that to get 4 points something more than a reminder by telephone should be required such as supervising and constantly prompting the claimant to put the spoon into the bowl and convey the food to her mouth. Supervision alone could just be to make sure the claimant is eating but no prompting is required as the claimant can eat without help. The entry for 10 points would require someone to be constantly spoon feeding the claimant.

Maybe at the first assessment years ago it was put that not only does she need to be supervised she needs constant prompting to eat or she'll just stop eating the meal and her mind wanders on to other things.

pmlindyloo

I think supervision is more to do with the safety of the claimant carrying out the activity whereas prompting is to do with prompting the claimant to do something, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

Often the prompting is needed because of a mental illness whereas the supervision might be to do with safety issues where the claimant has physical difficulties. e.g epilepsy.

That is why I believe that prompting carries more points.

I do agree that poor diet choices wouldn't necessarily meet the descriptor but an awful lot depends on why the claimant doesn't get washed/dressed/eat. If the underlying reason for this is a mental illness, e.g. severe depression, then the claimant would have evidence from professionals to back this up.

Are there other people involved with your friend's care, e.g. friends/neighbours/carers, who could write a statement to document how they found the claimant when visiting (just as an example)?

Your friend could keep a diary of each day saying what they do, why they do/don't do it/how they are feeling.

All the supporting evidence from medical professionals and the medication prescribed would have to back up the claim that your friend's refusing to dress/wash/eat was a result of their illness.

If the CPN isn't available your friend could try a benefit advisor at CAB/local council or an organisation such as MIND.