Complaints about wooden/laminate flooring in period properties

mrginge

Taploc wrote: »

I also feel it's not a decision the courts would want to set as precedent as it'd open the floodgates for thousands around the UK to sue their neigbours (plus freeholders being able to enforce the removal of flooring).

I'm sorry to have to tell you, but the idea that such a dispute would set a legal precedent, is quite simply garbage.

AdrianC

Taploc has clearly made their own mind up, and is merely posting here for reinforcement of that conclusion. Any dissenting reality is clearly a waste of breath.

AnotherJoe

Taploc wrote: »

I find it quite unfair and feel he just has unpleasant neighbours.

I dont know how often your upstairs neighbours are on their roof terrace when they are in, but I'd bet its considerably less often than your bf is in his flat when he is in. YOu may also have a lower annoyance threshold than bf's neighbours, but I wonder if you'd think it was part and parcel of everyday living if you had that noise all the time?

However good your bf's intentions are by !!!!!footing around, the mere fact he even has to do that, plus the fact its upset the neighbors enough to complain to the council, and the council have talked about making him install sound proofing, ought to be a significant clue to the two of you that there is justification in their complaints rather than they are being unpleasant for the sake of it.

There is a reason its often in the lease that you can't have hard flooring so your contention that

Taploc wrote: »

I also feel it's not a decision the courts would want to set as precedent as it'd open the floodgates for thousands around the UK to sue their neigbours (plus freeholders being able to enforce the removal of flooring).

is wrong, because in fact its very common.

And they only need to take the extreme step of suing if the person in question feels they are above the law to the extent they can ignore their lease conditions. Your bf could merely keep within the lease.

Did he install this flooring? If so, his bad. If not, his bad fortune he didn't check on it when buying.

p.s. He might want to consider the effect upon the sale price of his flat. That there is a registered dispute with the neighbours will likely already have an effect. Add to that £3k documented somewhat disruptive work , and the worry the neighbours may be very picky about noise and this dispute is likely to be knocking a fair bit more than that £3k off the value.

Taploc

AdrianC wrote: »

Of course it is. Just as yours is. But the freeholder is entitled to decide if it's a breach or not, and request that he complies with the terms of the lease.

The ultimate sanction available to the freeholder is for the lease to be forfeit.


While that's a heavy sanction to take, he will need to declare any dispute when he sells the flat.


Perhaps you might like to read what I actually wrote, instead of leaping to take offence at something that simply wasn't there? I've never met him. I merely pointed out that his neighbours clearly think he is, since they have gone so far as to complain about him to the freeholder.


This would not be the first such case, by a LONG way.

AnotherJoe wrote: »

I dont know how often your upstairs neighbours are on their roof terrace when they are in, but I'd bet its considerably less often than your bf is in his flat when he is in. YOu may also have a lower annoyance threshold than bf's neighbours, but I wonder if you'd think it was part and parcel of everyday living if you had that noise all the time?

However good your bf's intentions are by !!!!!footing around, the mere fact he even has to do that, plus the fact its upset the neighbors enough to complain to the council, and the council have talked about making him install sound proofing, ought to be a significant clue to the two of you that there is justification in their complaints rather than they are being unpleasant for the sake of it.

There is a reason its often in the lease that you can't have hard flooring so your contention that is wrong, because in fact its very common.

And they only need to take the extreme step of suing if the person in question feels they are above the law to the extent they can ignore their lease conditions. Your bf could merely keep within the lease.

Did he install this flooring? If so, his bad. If not, his bad fortune he didn't check on it when buying.

p.s. He might want to consider the effect upon the sale price of his flat. That there is a registered dispute with the neighbours will likely already have an effect. Add to that £3k documented somewhat disruptive work , and the worry the neighbours may be very picky about noise and this dispute is likely to be knocking a fair bit more than that £3k off the value.

AnotherJoe: I don't wonder, because the flat is not occupied 'all the time'. My partner works and quite often stays at my place. We are out/away at weekends. What if I were to tell you that my neighbours could be disingenuous about their claims? There's a lot of background that I have omitted as it doesn't help me with my initial query. I feel that a few of you have been quick to jump on the "wooden flooring unequivocally equals rock concert" bandwagon. As with most such disputes, there's always more than the objective elements that really build up the facts.

I have a feeling you would lose your bet. I've had people stay with me who are heavy footed when walking. Some people are; others are not. I've lived in rented new-builds where I knew the floor was concrete, so I was less mindful of footfall noise. However, living in a period property is entirely different. I'm not sure if you have experience of this, but my point is that if one were to compare noise as a nuisance from hard footall when there is carpet (in a period property where there's squeaky floorboards) and mindfully walking in a property with wooden flooring, there is not much difference. Of course hard-shoes, high-heels and just stomping around is absolutely out of the question when it comes to wooden flooring and living above others in flats.

My bf's aware of the problems of selling if there's any kind of anti-social or dispute attached to the property. Property in London goes up in value and it is not a main residence so it's not the end of his days if that were the case.

I haven't made up my mind, nor has my partner. I was merely trying to pick the forum's brains to see what experience or nuggets of information you might've had. Thanks for replying and for your time. I wasn't offended by AdrianC. No one has the right not to be offended.

AnotherJoe

I have a feeling you would lose your bet.
=====

My bet would be that your neighbours are on their roof terrace when they are in less often than your bf is in his flat when he is in. Given this is the UK, and despite having had a couple of days of good weather, your bf must barely be in his flat at all, or your neighbours be serious outdoors folk, for this not to be the case.

Aside squeaky floorboards (which can be easily fixed and is not an inherent property of carpets), its self evident that laminate flooring will be noisier than carpet, even with "mindful walking".

There is a reason that many leases have conditions either specifically forbidding hard flooring or alluding to that. It seems clear that this is an issue for the neighbours, its irrelevant ist not one for you, you think they are being unreasonable, but they couldn't have been unreasonable had your bf kept within his lease, so he has no legs (or in this case feet) to stand on

RichardD1970

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Aside squeaky floorboards (which can be easily fixed and is not an inherent property of carpets), its self evident that laminate flooring will be noisier than carpet, even with "mindful walking".

He'll have to start practising this,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p9NTo6BWvs

Taploc

My partner laid flooring with permission from the freeholder, so you are wrong. It's mandatory for the leaseholder to request for permission and then it's, obviously, at the freeholder's discretion whether flooring can be laid or not. When it is granted, it comes with conditions - conditions which would be in line with the lease (as I included above). What's at the crux of this issue here is how the lease is interpreted. If the lease stipulates that only specific types of flooring can be laid and my partner didn't adhere to those materials or types of flooring, then he would be in breach of his lease. As it stands, he hasn't reached that juncture.

Don't jump to conclusions. You will only cloud your judgement and offer skewered advice. Thanks for it and your time, though.

marksoton

Taploc wrote: »

My partner laid flooring with permission from the freeholder, so you are wrong. It's mandatory for the leaseholder to request for permission and then it's, obviously, at the freeholder's discretion whether flooring can be laid or not. When it is granted, it comes with conditions - conditions which would be in line with the lease (as I included above). What's at the crux of this issue here is how the lease is interpreted. If the lease stipulates that only specific types of flooring can be laid and my partner didn't adhere to those materials or types of flooring, then he would be in breach of his lease. As it stands, he hasn't reached that juncture.

Don't jump to conclusions. You will only cloud your judgement and offer skewered advice. Thanks for it and your time, though.

Stop talking a load of broken biscuits.

Presumably he got that permission in writing. Stating it wasn't in contravention of the lease and the agreed material and technical specification?

He did do that didn't he.....?

glasgowdan

Does nobody take their shoes off before entering their homes these days? I guess cold wooden floors mean they have to wear shoes!

-taff

Taploc wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. The lease states that the leaseholder must keep 'the floors of the premises sustantially covered with suitable material for reasonably minimising the transmission of noise'

I doubt by any stretch you can say laminate flooring complies with the above so it sounds like he's in breach of the lease.
He might as well either carpet, or soundproof.