0 points after 15 years

James1954

Alice_Walker wrote: »

I can understand that you would not want to attempt something that would cause you pain, but the assessor cannot give an opinion without seeing you at least try. If not you could have anybody going in and saying "can't do that" - they can't simply take your word for it.

Been thinking about that. At an earlier assessment I had MRI (X Ray) scans of my spine which the specialists had explained to me in detail where the deterioration showed up and why it was inoperable - although I must admit some of it went over my head. Presumably no one could fake that.
If I could have had a spinal specialist who had seen the MRI Scans, instead of a Maximus 'Nurse' with a quota to fail, I would have been OK.

HB58

Once your appeal has been accepted by the Tribunal service you can contact DWP and ask them to resume ESA payments.They will only pay for days that are covered with 'sick/fitnotes'. The fact that you are on contributory benefit will not change anything.

James1954

HB58 wrote: »

Once your appeal has been accepted by the Tribunal service you can contact DWP and ask them to resume ESA payments.They will only pay for days that are covered with 'sick/fitnotes'. The fact that you are on contributory benefit will not change anything.

Seems a bit sinister to me I can't think of any genuine reason why the DWP only allow Jobseekers allowance to be claimed until the Mandatory consideration is refused, and then allow ESA. Why not allow ESA assesment rate right through? It seems as though those desperate for money are forced to claim Jobseekers, then the DWP can say they are capable of work.
Cuts to the benefit budget are still pencilled in, so there must be even more pressure to achieve them from other benefits now the DWP have had to back down on their planned cuts to PIP.
Might explain why I have suddenly been awarded 0 points with no explanation after 15 years in IB/Support Group?
Or am I being too cynical?

[Deleted User]

One of the things they look closely at is if the medication matches the problems, if for example you claim to be in severe pain but only take parecetomol it would be seen differently than if you were prescribed morphine....just saying before anyone snaps my head off

Bananas123

if you were in the support group, previously and your condition is now worse, it doesn't take a genius to work out, that you should VERY much be put in the support group....

they hand out 0's to aload of people, and there is high failure rate on mandatory reconsideration i think.

(i went from 0 > 0 > WRAG).

i have read articles about terminally ill people getting 0's but i don't know how sensationalised they were.

they send you the assessement documents (what the person inputted into the computer), so you can debate it, and there is plenty of time prior to tribunal to get things in order.

it is good that you have rainy day savings, i feel sorry for the people who do not..., it could take a LONG time, so please you may have to budget, and then be back-paid, for when hopefully they return you to the support group.

the stupid thing about the 0>0> process (seemingly to make it difficult for people to commit fraud (???)), is that the process takes so long, that by the time a "fraudulent claimant" has reached tribunal stage, enough time (or atleast when i last applied) has elapsed, to simply re-apply for benefit.

(although i would suggest if you are applying for esa by "choice" vs. need (vs active life, working), then thats kind of suggestive of mental health problems anyway....)

but hopefully all will be right come tribunal stage, they have a doctor there so hopefully again, it will not be too difficult to realise, that you are not capable of working...

don't be harming yourself to get places though etc, it works against you, stupid i know.

> normal humans would commend your effort of spinal degeneration vs public transport, but the DWP have an alternate reality or something...

good luck,

James1954

venison wrote: »

One of the things they look closely at is if the medication matches the problems, if for example you claim to be in severe pain but only take parecetomol it would be seen differently than if you were prescribed morphine....just saying before anyone snaps my head off

Well I showed the assessor the Tramadol I was taking prescribed by my Doctor over the phone, together with normal paracetomol to try and reduce its side effects (headaches)
I think they have had my MRI scans for earlier assessments, and 3 spinal surgeons have looked at them and said its too risky to operate. Sounds like a final answer to me, but the Maximus nurse obviously thinks she knows better.. I don't know whether the DWP have still got my scans but she said she had not seen them when I asked. I just get repeat prescriptions over the phone, since normal Doctors appointments are booked up for over 3 weeks ahead - hospital appointments longer. So I don't know whether I could go back to the hospital and ask for another set of MRI scans to be made for Maximus to lose or ignore. But I would be willing to do so if Maximus are going to pay for the report and scans.

James1954

Bananas123 wrote: »

the stupid thing about the 0>0> process (seemingly to make it difficult for people to commit fraud (???)), is that the process takes so long, that by the time a "fraudulent claimant" has reached tribunal stage, enough time (or atleast when i last applied) has elapsed, to simply re-apply for benefit.

I don't know whether I could re apply because income based depends on my last 2 years NI contributions being high enough. I had high enough contributions from working when I applied 15 years ago, but presumably not in the last 2 years whilst I have been on ESA support.

Bananas123 wrote: »

(although i would suggest if you are applying for esa by "choice" vs. need (vs active life, working), then thats kind of suggestive of mental health problems anyway....)

Sorry I don't understand. As I would not be able to get to the Jobcentre without a taxi and proper disabled access, jobseeking activity they want would probably be impossible for me, and certainly pointless since nobody could give me a job with my disabilities and I couldn't do it if they did.
So I am not planning to apply for JSA, but perhaps ESA assessment rate when I have got their mandatory reassessment out of the way?
PS: As I told the Maximus assessor I think the only mental health problem I have is depression which is just a symptom of my physical problems.

Alice_Holt

James1954 wrote: »

I don't know whether I could re apply because income based depends on my last 2 years NI contributions being high enough. I had high enough contributions from working when I applied 15 years ago, but presumably not in the last 2 years whilst I have been on ESA support..

I think you are confused here.
Hardly suprising, as Benefits Law and Regulations are so complex.
Contribution-based ESa depends on NI contributions. This is limited to 365 days unless you are placed in the Support Group. If in the SG It continues to be paid indefinitely.

Income-based is means tested. The amount you receive will reduce (or cease) dependant on savings etc..

It would seem to me, that is very important (given that you have said that you won't claim JSa) for you to overturn the DWP decision that you are fit for work , and be placed back in the Support Group for ESa..

Where have you got to in this proccess?

I suggested you read this guide (the appeal proccess also applies to Esa):
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/turned-down-dla-aa-or-pip-or-think-youre-not-getting-enough
and:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/med2/indexxx.php
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/while-youre-getting-esa/challenging-an-esa-decision/

Have you had a chance to look through this information?

Whilst these forums can be very useful, I believe you need to get accredited advice help to gude you through the appeal proccess. You need to understand the proccess and adhere to the timescales. You have mentioned the CAB is 20 miles away, so contact them initially by phone or e-mail.

But, Please, please do it SOON.

Have you written to the DWP asking for a MANDATORY RECONSIDERATION of the DWP decision that you are fit for work?

I would urge you to concentrate on this, rather than engaging in debate on this forum.

If this sounds harsh, I apologise. It must be particularly difficult as you have both a chronic physical condition and depression. Please, get the appropriate help to guide you through the appeal proccess.
Don't give up and don't run out of time to appeal.

James1954

Alice_Holt wrote: »

I think you are confused here.
Hardly suprising, as Benefits Law and Regulations are so complex.
Contribution-based ESa depends on NI contributions. This is limited to 365 days unless you are placed in the Support Group. If in the SG It continues to be paid indefinitely.

Income-based is means tested. The amount you receive will reduce (or cease) dependant on savings etc..

It would seem to me, that is very important (given that you have said that you won't claim JSa) for you to overturn the DWP decision that you are fit for work , and be placed back in the Support Group for ESa..

Where have you got to in this proccess?

I suggested you read this guide (the appeal proccess also applies to Esa):
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/turned-down-dla-aa-or-pip-or-think-youre-not-getting-enough
and:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/med2/indexxx.php
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/while-youre-getting-esa/challenging-an-esa-decision/

Have you had a chance to look through this information?

Whilst these forums can be very useful, I believe you need to get accredited advice help to gude you through the appeal proccess. You need to understand the proccess and adhere to the timescales. You have mentioned the CAB is 20 miles away, so contact them initially by phone or e-mail.

But, Please, please do it SOON.

Have you written to the DWP asking for a MANDATORY RECONSIDERATION of the DWP decision that you are fit for work?

I would urge you to concentrate on this, rather than engaging in debate on this forum.

If this sounds harsh, I apologise. It must be particularly difficult as you have both a chronic physical condition and depression. Please, get the appropriate help to guide you through the appeal proccess.
Don't give up and don't run out of time to appeal.

Many Thanks Alice.
I was confusing income based and contribution based. My concern is if I have to start a new claim I wouldn't have any contributions in the last 2 tax years for it.
I have subscribed to the Benefits and Work website from your link. There is a great deal of stuff you can ask for from the DWP - I had just asked for everything I was entitled to on my ESA-50.
When the assessor phoned I asked him to put me down for Mandatory Reconsideration so I could get that out of the way and get to Appeal to see a proper Doctor, but he wouldn't confirm he had done so, just said would be sending some letters and hung up. I phoned and spoke to someone else asking for all the things listed on the B&W website but we just kept going round in circles - whatever I asked for that the B&W website says I can have she just kept saying its the medical report you need we will send that within 5 days. She said I wasn't listed for Mandatory reconsideration - even though I had already asked the DM to do it several times during our phone conversation.
I have sent a letter and email asking for it all, unfortunately didn't get proof of posting for the letter so perhaps should send another.
I will also send a letter asking again for a Mandatory reconsideration again as you say. I should have a bit of time to do that yet because I only got the call telling me of the Decision last Wednesday, then if they do send me any stuff I can comment on it. At the moment I still have no idea know why I have suddenly been brought down to 0 points. The DM said I had contradicted myself on my ESA50 but wouldn't say where, and I can't see any contradiction - if I could maybe I could clarify it for them.
Maybe its the MRI Scans that proved my condition in previous assessments - the assessor said she hadn't seen them so maybe the DWP has lost them, I don't know.
I would be quite prepared to go back for more scans if they are goiing to pay for them, but with the hospitals so busy it seems a bit much to have to get another set of MRI scans every time the DWP decides to do another assessment. Spinal disc degeneration doesn't get better as I know only too well.

Alice_Holt

Broadly, the steps needed to appeal are (and the CAB can advise you in more detail) :

1) Go through the ESa activities and points (these will be listed on the DWP paperwork or use CAB adviceguide for a fuller explanation) and identify where you score the necessary 15 points.
Remember you can also qualify for ESA if your health is at significant risk by being assesed as fit for work. Use the links I have previously posted. It may be worth subscribing to Benefits & Work ( It's around £20) as they have an excellent guide to the appeal proccess.
EDITING NOTE. I was writing this as you posted you above it. I'm glad you have subscribed to B&W - it is a really good resource.

2) Write to the DWP (Sent it to the DWP address on your decision letter) asking for a reconsideration of their decision. Keep a copy, and get proof of posting. Include a copy of your previous ESa Support Group award. Explain why you qualify for ESa (per 1 above) .

3) If the DWP do not change their decision (usually they don't).
This is the form to appeal to the Tribunal Service (TS):
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/181311/SSCS1.pdf

I'm sure the CAB will suggest that you tick the box to attend in person. If the tribunal can see and talk to you, they are more likely to come to the right decision.

You need to attach a copy of the mandatory reconsideration notice to the form..
The SSCS 1 form has to be received by the TS within 1 month of the date of the mandatory reconsideration notice. Under Grounds for the Appeal list and explain the Esa activities you can't do reliably. Tell them if your health is at risk though a return to work

4) Keep notes / a diary of how you struggles with the relevant ESa activities. Your can take this to the CAB, and more importantly to the tribunal so you have examples to tell the panel about.

5) Get evidence to support that you can't do these activities reliably, safely and repeatedly. This could be medical evidence or from Carers, freinds, family. Show these letters to the CAB before you post them to the TS.

6) Write a letter (submission) to the Tribunal Service (at least 2 weeks before the hearing date) explaining what activities you can't do reliably. Enclose any medical evidence you have.

The CAB should be able to help you through these steps.

The job of the tribunal is to listen to you, assess the evidence, and then decide if the DWP made the right decision. They will ask you about your day-to-day life - it is not an inquisition, They will be thorough, because they have to be sure the right decision (in law) is made.

The DWP is often wrong. CAB have about 80%+ success rate with tribunals. It is not uncommon for clients with 0 ESa points to be put into the ESa support group at tribunal!

Good Luck.