Tata redundancy

andru

I'll try and keep this short and to the point, apologies if i go off on a tangent.

Basically I am under notice from my job after 25 years, I am now 51. I have been given a final date of 25th June. They did a scoring system to pick the people to be made redundant and I failed that. Just 20% of the score was for absenteeism in which I cannot argue with. I lost a large amount of time during 2015 as I lost my wife of 18 months to a very rare and aggressive cancer. I also lost time due to a works accident that went unreported as such. To justify their decision to make me redundant they have produced a absolute assassination of my work ethic during the last 25 years. They have based the assessment on 1 year only, that being 2015! There is one comment in there that states that there is not a single job I can do in my department without guidance and supervision even though I was an actual unit trainer and completed a train the trainer course. Never in my 25 years has my work ethic ever been brought to the attention of the management.

They have clearly decided to make me redundant on my absence from work during 2015 and are now making a case to justify it. I have had an appeal and now waiting for the outcome of that. They have failed to take into account as to why I was off during 2015, I asked the question only to be told they did not take the reasons why only that I had. They have also not based it on a fair length of time of my working life there. One year out of 25 is not a fair representation of my work.

If I lose my appeal when I get the answer next week I will be going to a tribunal to fight this. I was told today that if I sign for my redundancy package then I will not be able to go to tribunal as I have signed my rights away, is this true?

Any other advice would be gratefully appreciated.

sangie595

andru wrote: »

I'll try and keep this short and to the point, apologies if i go off on a tangent.

Basically I am under notice from my job after 25 years, I am now 51. I have been given a final date of 25th June. They did a scoring system to pick the people to be made redundant and I failed that. Just 20% of the score was for absenteeism in which I cannot argue with. I lost a large amount of time during 2015 as I lost my wife of 18 months to a very rare and aggressive cancer. I also lost time due to a works accident that went unreported as such. To justify their decision to make me redundant they have produced a absolute assassination of my work ethic during the last 25 years. They have based the assessment on 1 year only, that being 2015! There is one comment in there that states that there is not a single job I can do in my department without guidance and supervision even though I was an actual unit trainer and completed a train the trainer course. Never in my 25 years has my work ethic ever been brought to the attention of the management.

They have clearly decided to make me redundant on my absence from work during 2015 and are now making a case to justify it. I have had an appeal and now waiting for the outcome of that. They have failed to take into account as to why I was off during 2015, I asked the question only to be told they did not take the reasons why only that I had. They have also not based it on a fair length of time of my working life there. One year out of 25 is not a fair representation of my work.

If I lose my appeal when I get the answer next week I will be going to a tribunal to fight this. I was told today that if I sign for my redundancy package then I will not be able to go to tribunal as I have signed my rights away, is this true?

Any other advice would be gratefully appreciated.

If the redundancy is subject to a settlement agreement, then yes, it would be true. But I would stop and reconsider whether you want to throw money at a tribunal (it'll cost you over £1000) because based on your story, you probably won't win.

As long as everyone is judged based on the year 2015, it is absolutely fair in law to use a one year period as the assessment period for selection. No matter how long you have worked there.

And they are right - the reason for absence doesn't matter, just the fact of absence.

And no tribunal is ever going to overrule an employers opinion of your capability at work - the tribunal has no idea how well you performed or how that compares to other peoples, and they simply will not do anything to change the employers judgement.

I understand perfectly well that you are angry. But don't let anger overcome sense. The chances of your winning would be slim to even less than that. And you will be throwing away good money that you can ill afford to lose. Plus, if there is any enhanced rate (which is usually given alongside a settlement agreement) you will lose whatever enhancement is on offer for ever. If it is just statutory, then you don't have to sign any form of agreement that signs away your rights, but even after 25 years, it won't be a lot of money and you'll need it.

TyreLever

What the above guy said. Theres also no avoiding the fact that Tata is doomed among many other sectors. The UK is entering another recession. So even if you won your case, its not likely a long term solution. Its an awful situation but your best bet now is to seek out alternative employment.

andru

Thanks for the replies. I can fully understand your comments regarding the future of Tata Steel. I have gone for my appeal and I'm really torn as to if I really want to keep my job in all honesty, I've wrestled with my decision for weeks. I think going for it give me a little security for as long as it is there.

I thought I read on the ACAS site that they had to take into account each individuals reasons for losing time and also give a fair representation of selection time considering length of service. How could it be fair if I had an unblemished 24 years and a terrible year last year for the reasons given above, how could that be considered a fair selection process?

It's also been a risk going now or going if the place shuts down, £33.5k if I go now as opposed to around £11.5k if the place shuts. I'm gambling no matter what I do, I took the safe option and fought the decision.

Hopefully it will be the right one.

sangie595

andru wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I can fully understand your comments regarding the future of Tata Steel. I have gone for my appeal and I'm really torn as to if I really want to keep my job in all honesty, I've wrestled with my decision for weeks. I think going for it give me a little security for as long as it is there.

I thought I read on the ACAS site that they had to take into account each individuals reasons for losing time and also give a fair representation of selection time considering length of service. How could it be fair if I had an unblemished 24 years and a terrible year last year for the reasons given above, how could that be considered a fair selection process?

It's also been a risk going now or going if the place shuts down, £33.5k if I go now as opposed to around £11.5k if the place shuts. I'm gambling no matter what I do, I took the safe option and fought the decision.

Hopefully it will be the right one.

ACAS can provide broad guidance, but it isn't law. In these situations there is nothing that is "fair". Why would it be fair to allow your assessment to be based on, say 2013, when it was better, against someone with three years service who has had a day off last year? Since people with lengthy service are almost certainly older than most people with shorter service, that becomes potential age discriminatiate And your sickness absence was only one contributing factor. The assessment of your capability is the main one, and that is one impossible to overturn in law. Your one shot at that is with the employer.

But you have answered one matter- you have enhanced redundancy now, and this will probably be tied to a settlement agreement. So if you don't sign that and give up your right to a tribunal, you probably will lose a lot of money. £20,000 isn't a gamble, it's foolishness. There every chance of not even getting that much if toy won, and every chance of losing. To say nothing of the money for the tribunal.

andru

Thanks sangie595 for the reply and putting my mind to rest as what to do if I fail in my appeal. I will walk away with the £33.5 and say thank you to them for making the decision for me. I wanted to fight them for my pride more than anything as I took the assessment personally as an assassination of my work ethic over 25 years.

sangie595

andru wrote: »

Thanks sangie595 for the reply and putting my mind to rest as what to do if I fail in my appeal. I will walk away with the £33.5 and say thank you to them for making the decision for me. I wanted to fight them for my pride more than anything as I took the assessment personally as an assassination of my work ethic over 25 years.

I totally understand. But I am afraid that redundancy isn't ever polite or nice. Whatever goes on, they have to find a reason to make it be you and not someone else, and logic or sense are never factors in decision making. Don't see it as a reflection on you, because it really isn't. See it as a new opportunity. You have been in this place and worked hard for 25 years. But that isn't all you are, and this is a chance to explore what else you could be. See what happens with the appeal (and do let us know) and if it is lost, start planning this new life that you now have. That could be really exciting...

andru

If the appeal panel, that being just 2 people, are going away to consider their decision. Can I before they reconvene on Tuesday at 9.30am decide that I do not want it to go through, therefore forcing them to make me redundant or will they make their decision no matter what?
My mind has been a wirlwind over the last few weeks with uncertainty and bitterness etc and not sure which way to go.

Financially I think I will be okay as long as I can get a part time job for around 24 hours a week as I do not have a mortgage and I am in receipt of a widowers pension of around £300 per month.

If i go I will have around £85k in the bank and intend to purchase a house to rent out for a little more income and access my pension on a drawdown at 55 which will bring in another £600 a month. At 55 I could potentially have a monthly income of around £1600 with just a part time job. When I look at it like that I know the choice I should have made. The pessimistic side of me says stay in the job

sangie595

andru wrote: »

If the appeal panel, that being just 2 people, are going away to consider their decision. Can I before they reconvene on Tuesday at 9.30am decide that I do not want it to go through, therefore forcing them to make me redundant or will they make their decision no matter what?
My mind has been a wirlwind over the last few weeks with uncertainty and bitterness etc and not sure which way to go.

Financially I think I will be okay as long as I can get a part time job for around 24 hours a week as I do not have a mortgage and I am in receipt of a widowers pension of around £300 per month.

If i go I will have around £85k in the bank and intend to purchase a house to rent out for a little more income and access my pension on a drawdown at 55 which will bring in another £600 a month. At 55 I could potentially have a monthly income of around £1600 with just a part time job. When I look at it like that I know the choice I should have made. The pessimistic side of me says stay in the job

I can't guess at what the employers reaction would be, but I suspect they would agree to drop the appeal if you wanted to, but they'll probably want it in writing. In their shoes I would.

It sounds like you have made the decision - and given what you have said here, it seems a sensible one. I'm in much the same position as you, although I wasn't made redundant, I just chose to take my pension, and I have been retraining to do something I love, maybe occasionally paid, but mostly voluntary because I can afford to. It can be scary, but there is more to life than slaving away in a full-time job.

RichardD1970

I have to say that in your position (and I know it is easy for me to say as I'm not), I would be biting their hand off for the 33.5k.

But change is hard and after 25 years it's a very scary prospect.

Good luck.

andru

It is a scary prospect after 25 years of security and that's the worrying side of it. I feel I want them to make the decision for me and then there is no going back.

I would have to contact them very early on Tuesday morning as their decision is coming at 9.30 and I'm sure if they overturn the redundancy notice I will not be in a position to request to go after that.

Ultimately I feel it's a terrible situation to be in when only 20% of the markings were for absenteeism and they have fabricated my work ethic to justify their decision based on that.

I will keep you informed on what actually happens on Tuesday morning.

Thanks