Upper Massonette & converting the loft

Lmeola

Hi Guys,

Need some trusty advice. We like this property and are close to exchange and completion after 4 months of delays and waiting. We went ahead with the purchase because we were under the illusion that we could convert the loft. Now we have been told by out solicitor that the lower maisonette has a right to the loft area to insert an aerial. If we were to go ahead with the sale of the flat we would be the leaseholders and full freeholder. Our solicitor has commented below in black and the current owner has replied in the red. What do you guys think? Would you still convert the loft? We would pull out of the purchase if the loft could not be converted.

The loft does not belong with the upper maisonette. The Lease is quite clear that the only part of the building itself that belongs to the upper maisonette is the maisonette itself and that everything above the ceiling belongs with the freehold. You cannot extend into the loft nor use it for storage, as it will not belong to you.

The whole freehold is being sold too at cost price. We are resident freeholders which means that we do not have to offer a share of the freehold to the other leaseholder. Being the freeholder gives them ownership of the whole loft and allows them to develop it as they so choose.

This will not hinder the development. We can include the loft in demise and allow a small area under the eaves for an antenna if the other leaseholder so chooses to exercise the right to install an antenna in the loft

If the freeholder does agree to change the Lease and give you access to the loft, you still cannot convert into it. Under the terms of the 1980 Lease of the lower maisonette, the “downstairs lessee” is given “the right to install and maintain an independent television or radio aerial in the roof loft of the building…” Even if there is no aerial in the roof space now, the downstairs lessee has an absolute right to have an aerial in the loft space and you cannot take that away from him unless you change his Lease. So, even if the landlord agrees to change the Lease of the upper maisonette to give you the loft, you still could not convert the loft without dealing with the rights of the downstairs lessee. That would involve changing the downstairs Lease and not only would the downstairs lessee have to agree to that but so would his Lender. The end result would be that you would have to pay everyone’s costs and fees to alter both Leases so that the upstairs Lease would include the loft and the downstairs Lease to take away the rights that it currently has to use the loft space for an aerial

I have already discussed this with my solicitor, you can allocate a small area under the eaves for an antenna – ensuring the terms of the lease are adhered to – this space is usually dead space used only for storage when converting a loft. This should not hinder the development of the loft. Their solicitor should be able to confirm this too.

AnnieO1234

Where is the loft access located? I assume it's wholly in your flat. What are the rights for the lower maisonette to access it with regards to notice etc?

I can't see any issue here personally as irrespective of who or what owns the lift space, the only right (from what you've said) is the installation of an aerial. Xxx

HouseBuyer77

It seems your solicitor doesn't understand you are purchasing the freehold too. They refer to the landlord/freeholder agreeing to various things. Give that will also be you I suspect they will be highly agreeable to any changes you suggest

Discussing your plans with the downstairs neighbours and seeing if they'd be willing to remove the right to install a loft aeriel from their lease would be a good idea. You could offer some to pay for the install of a roof mounted TV aeriel for them if they don't already have one as well as paying them some money for the removal of the clause (say £200) as well as paying all the legal fees.

Lmeola

The loft access is located in the upper maisonette. Not too sure about notice will need to re read the lease again.

Okay, but would you personally still convert the loft area knowing that you have to give access for the lower maisonette to install an aerial? I'm confused on why my solicitor would be so against it yet the vendor is so relaxed. (because he wants the sale) As it stand now I think we are pulling out because of all this and its such a shame. We're both gutted.

Lmeola

House buyer, would you suggest to do this before or after the sale of the property? It seems like so much extra time and money before we've even done anything to the flat. I want to cry.

davidmcn

Leaving the loft aside - what rights does the downstairs flat have over the roof? (which I presume you'd also be altering)

Lmeola

Sub-clause (7) goes on to confirm that you and the lower lessee are jointly responsible for keeping the shared pathways repaired and maintained but also the roof, the main walls and the foundations of the building.

HouseBuyer77

Lmeola wrote: »

House buyer, would you suggest to do this before or after the sale of the property? It seems like so much extra time and money before we've even done anything to the flat. I want to cry.

Definitely talk to the neighbour below beforehand. This is something you'd want to do anyway (always good to know who you're living in close proximity too).

They may well not even realise they have the right and they may not care about it. If on the other hand they kick up a big fuss immediately you know they're going to be trouble and it could be worth walking away (assuming the loft conversion makes or breaks this purchase for you).

Make sure your solicitor understands the vendor is also the freeholder and that you will be purchasing the freehold from them. The key questions are:

1. As freeholder can you conver the loft into an extra room and extend your lease to cover it whilst not violating the rights of downstairs (do they have the right to go up whenever they want to adjust the aeriel or whatever or is the ability to get access to the space in the eaves for the aeriel very occasionally sufficient, perhaps the right extends over the entire loft so they could demand that the aeriel is placed in the middle of your new room if they felt like being difficult)?
2. Is downstairs ameanable to having their lease altered to remove the right? Can this be done as part of the sale (make the contract conditional on it happening)?

Lmeola

Thanks, two very good points you have made. Our solicitor understand that the vendor is the freeholder, I think she was just trying to explain it as clearly as possible to us. The next issue is that the lower maisonette is rented, so we would have to get in touch with the leaseholder. More hassle.

Would you recommend that the vendor pay for all of these potential extra costs? He works at the planning office for the borough we are purchasing in and had told us on many occasions that the loft could be converted easily and freely with planning permission granted. Yet here we are with many issue and close to completion. So much time has been wasted almost 3 1/2 months not forgetting solicitor fees.

Cakeguts

The big problem that I can see with this is that the downstairs leaseholder is responsible for repairs to the roof that you want to alter. The downstairs lease repairs refer to the roof that it there now it doesn't refer to a roof that has had holes made into it to let light into the loft conversion. There would need to be some sort of alteration to the lease for downstairs as the roof would after conversion have windows in it. So what part of the downstairs lease says that they are responsible for repairs to a roof that has been altered? What happens if your building works damage the roof? Although you will be the freeholder you can't do anything that causes changes to the downstairs lease unless you can change the lease. It isn't just the right of the television aerial.

Hoploz

A solicitor will always be cautious and warn you of any issues which could arise. It doesn't mean those issue will arise. I wouldn't worry about it - there would always be space for an aerial in an eaves cupboard, no bother.

I have no real knowledge of freeholder rights, but I would think a new freeholder might be able to vary a lease or issue a new one .... If the current lease contains responsibility of the lower flat for shared liability to the roof, perhaps this could be used as a sweetener for them to agree to the change of use of the loft, ie you will replace the roof covering while you convert the loft and take full responsibility for the maintenance thereof.