Charging tenant to clean conservatory roof? So stressed out by this

Liz1729

Hi there, I'm an avid reader of these forums but have never needed to post before. Hoping for your collective wisdom to help lower my stress levels a bit (which, as you can see by this 2:30am post, are sky high right now).

I've just moved out of a rental property which is under the usual AST and is managed by the estate agent. For the first time ever, I knew I wouldn't be getting the whole deposit back because it was raining when my dad came up with the lawnmower so we couldn't do the lawn. A fair one to charge for. What would be a reasonable charge for a lawn which is at most 3m x 4m at the back and 3m x 2m at the front? We have not got quotes from the estate agent for this yet.

Also, the house came with the tattiest, oldest paintwork on all the walls, numerous hooks and nails and unpainted holes in the walls. The contract said we could hang hooks in the walls as long as we made good the damage. Here's the problem, I forgot until moving out day and it was too late. We left around 5 sets of 3 pinprick marks over 3 walls. We hoped the fact that we filed and repainted the entirety of the most tatty rooms of our own choice and hence covered around 10 enormous gouged out holes would lend us some goodwill. Apparently not. They propose £50 per wall to patch up areas that are less than a postage stamp in size of pinprick marks. What would be a resonable compromise?

And the big one which I can't stop thinking about: the conservatory roof, which came dotted with moss on the top of it, was left dotted with moss. They want to charge the cost of cleaning it, which will no doubt be a fortune as they'll need specialist equipment to reach all of it. This is making my blood boil as (a) the house came with it, (b) the contract does not state that we have to do it, (c) as far as I can tell on the internet, tenants are responsible for the interior of the house and landlords the exterior. I'll dig out the photos we took when we moved in asap as proof, they are claiming because we didn't add this to the inventory, we are responsible for it's 'deterioration'. We also didn't add in the state of the roof tiles or brickwork of the house because, seriously, that is beyond the responsibility of a tenant, right?

Added context: i'm seriously ill right now so this is really badly timed and the stress is affecting my recovery and treatment. My husband who also lived in this house, has been working abroad since january (but back in 3 weeks' time). In the 20 months we lived there, we: tolerated enormous inventory producing fees for an inaccurate inventory dated 6 months prior with datestamped photos from 6 months prior (which we amended throughout), recieved the house in a dirty state with mouldy curtains,. We repainted most rooms, filled in old nail holes in the walls, regrouted the kitchen sink, deweeded the driveway, lawn, bedding area and along the fence, saving the landlord from the start of damage being done to the patio from the roots of the weeds. We replanted the quarter of the lawn which had turned to mud. We pruned the very wild bush and tree. We planted all the empty pots with flowers which are still there. We paid all our rent on time, allowed access every time without renegotiation of times, were very nice about the time they failed to give notice of a contractor coming over (i was in bed with a migraine at the time, woke up to a noise downstairs as someone quietly rustled around in my kitchen. I have never experienced such genuine terror thinking i was being burgled while alone and defenseless), being very generous about the time they locked us out the house by locking the internal porch door we weren't given keys to. Basically, we've been as good tenants as we can be and tried to be as helpful and accomodating as possible through the tenancy. We've also added value to the property and made in look well maintained instead of neglected and shabby (as reflected in the £100 a month rent increase they secured off the tenants replacing us!). I've realised that the estate agent is under no obligation to apply goodwill or take betterment into account, they are playing as nasty as they can all of a sudden. I seriously doubt the landlord is behind this, I doubt he is aware at all actually! He will not want to pay for pointless things, I know that much! (He bodged all repairs himself or asked us to do things.) i wish i could just get hold of him and come to an arrangement like reasonable human beings!

so its us vs the estate agents - what amunition do I have? Legalities concerning the conservatory roof and division of responsibility? Legs to stand on because of their shoddy inventory and outdated photos? Also, can I request proof that their fees for wall repainting and lawn moving are actually used for this purpose? I just don't trust them not to just take the money and leave it, after all the house was full of chargeable issues when we moved in that they presumably madd deductions from the previous tenant for....

franklee

Where is the property e.g. England, Wales or Scotland?

Is the deposit protected in a scheme and were you given the prescribed information and was that complete? If not you can use a possible 1-3 times deposit claim to aid negotiations.

You needed to have returned the property in the same condition as at the start of the tenancy less fair wear and tear. The evidence for this is in the check in inventory which should be compared with the state at checkout.

Long grass at start of tenancy, OK to have long grass at end. Cut grass at start, need to cut grass at end.

Tenants should clean to the same standard as per the start of the tenancy - that includes outside cleaning.

Suggest you read up on how the deposit scheme works and raise a dispute. How it goes will depend on the landlord's evidence vs yours. The inventory, photographs etc. Submit your photos and put clearly in your evidence that their inventory and photos were six months out of date. The onus of proof is on the landlord and I don't think failure to make an inventory at the start of the tenancy will go down well.

Are you sure you don't have your landlord's address it may be on the paperwork somewhere. If you were still a tenant you could write and ask for it but sounds like it's too late for you. You could try the land registry see if his address is there.

frugalsmurf

Try and seperate yourself from the stress, from a health point of view. (Easier said than done, but you're more important than this)


Have you evidence or an inventory of what it was like as you moved in ?

Could you get landlords address as suggested above? And talk to them as it may be a pushy EA?

Is your deposit protected ? If not then you have grounds to complain about it not being protected and you'll hopefully get more money back.
If it is....then there's a legal process. They need to prove their case, and in turn you need to prove yours. Photos etc always helpful if you have any

Good luck.

Miss_Samantha

franklee wrote: »

Long grass at start of tenancy, OK to have long grass at end. Cut grass at start, need to cut grass at end.

Note that this also depends on the terms of the tenancy.
E.g. if the tenancy makes the tenant responsible for keeping the lawn nicely mowed then he must return it that way.

stator

Request the whole of the deposit and let the DPS decide what is reasonable.

Liz1729

I've added replies in red to your comment. Thanks for your help.

franklee wrote: »

Where is the property e.g. England, Wales or Scotland?England

Is the deposit protected in a scheme and were you given the prescribed information and was that complete? If not you can use a possible 1-3 times deposit claim to aid negotiations. Yes it is


You needed to have returned the property in the same condition as at the start of the tenancy less fair wear and tear. The evidence for this is in the check in inventory which should be compared with the state at checkout.Yes fine, we did complete it


Long grass at start of tenancy, OK to have long grass at end. Cut grass at start, need to cut grass at end.No problem. I am not contesting the need to get the lawn mown as it is longer than what we arrived. I was just hoping for a ballpark figure to have in mind as a reasonable amount the estate agents should be charging for this


Tenants should clean to the same standard as per the start of the tenancy - that includes outside cleaning. Fine of course - but ROOFS? The roof tiles are more weathed and mossy because 2 years has gone by and the house has aged -- this blows onto the conservatory roof, happened before we arrived and it didn't get any worse. The question here is what part of the exterior surface of the house (outside walls and roof) are tenants responsible for? There is no reference to it in the contract. In the inventory the conservatory roof is listed as "glass dirty". My stuff is in storage right now until my new house is ready so I can't access my CD of photos that we took when we moved in, until next week.


Suggest you read up on how the deposit scheme works and raise a dispute. How it goes will depend on the landlord's evidence vs yours. The inventory, photographs etc. Submit your photos and put clearly in your evidence that their inventory and photos were six months out of date. The onus of proof is on the landlord and I don't think failure to make an inventory at the start of the tenancy will go down well. Will do, and my thoughts too.


Are you sure you don't have your landlord's address it may be on the paperwork somewhere. If you were still a tenant you could write and ask for it but sounds like it's too late for you. You could try the land registry see if his address is there. His address is on the contract so I have that - should I write to him?

Liz1729

frugalsmurf wrote: »

Try and seperate yourself from the stress, from a health point of view. (Easier said than done, but you're more important than this)


Have you evidence or an inventory of what it was like as you moved in ?

Could you get landlords address as suggested above? And talk to them as it may be a pushy EA?

Is your deposit protected ? If not then you have grounds to complain about it not being protected and you'll hopefully get more money back.
If it is....then there's a legal process. They need to prove their case, and in turn you need to prove yours. Photos etc always helpful if you have any

Good luck.

Thank you, I'm so much worse that I was thanks to this situation. Can't wait for it to be over.

We have a 42 page inventory which we amended as it was inaccurate and datestamped 6 months prior. We took a CD's worth of photos which are locked away in storage for another week until I move into my new house (there is a 2 week gap of homelessness).

The deposit is protected. I'll agree a fair amount for repainting and lawn mowing but contest the rest.

Liz1729

Miss_Samantha wrote: »

Note that this also depends on the terms of the tenancy.
E.g. if the tenancy makes the tenant responsible for keeping the lawn nicely mowed then he must return it that way.

Yes the tenancy states we must mow the lawn. It wasn't done prior to us moving in but it was more overgrown. I know I'm in the wrong here, the situation got the better of me as I am too ill to do it and on the day help came to mow it, it has rained too much. So I am happy it is fair to charge for this - any idea what would be a fair cost?

Liz1729

stator wrote: »

Request the whole of the deposit and let the DPS decide what is reasonable.

I don't want to be OTT about it - I do think some deduction is arguable for repainting and lawn moving. I don't want to be presented as an unreasonable money grabbing tenant to the DPS; it is the estate agents who are being unreasonable and money grabbing here.

westernpromise

A fair cost for mowing the lawn would be whatever a local garden maintenance firm would charge you to do it. I'm in London and the firm I use charges £14 an hour, which includes them providing their own mower. There's a minimum amount of time you'd be charged for - if it only took half an hour to do a small lawn, you'd be charged more than that, as it's obviously not worth anyone's while to make a special trip to the house to make £7. But I'd guess £28 to £42 or so to cut the grass, trim the edges and take the cuttings away.

If you were feeling facetious you could get a comparison quote from the local bikini waxing salon, on the grounds that it's much the same job on much the same scale :-)

As others have said, the deemed condition when you moved in is what's on the inventory, as there's no other evidence of what that condition was. If it was inaccurate or otherwise unreliable and you can show you said so at the time then you can challenge its reliability.

HouseBuyer77

They want to charge the cost of cleaning it, which will no doubt be a fortune as they'll need specialist equipment to reach all of it.

Unless it's truely huge or elaborate a bloke on a step ladder with a brush with a telescopic handle should do the job. I would have thought your average window cleaner would have no problem doing it. So even if they do charge I can't see it costing much.