Ticket for stopping in a prohibited area.

MattNorth

Hi


If anybody has any advice for me then that would be great.


I've recently received a letter/fine from ES Parking Enforcement Limited in relation to stopping in a prohibited area. The prohibited area is Water Street in Spinningfields, Manchester. I was driving on Water Street when my phone rang and so I decided to quickly pull over to see who was calling. I then stopped for approximately 20 seconds (just enough time to find my phone and check who it was) and then set off again. I thought nothing of it until receiving a fine through the post.


The letter claimed that Water Street is privately owned and that it is a no stopping road. I had no recollection of seeing any signs stating this and so I decided to go back to Water Street to inspect. Upon arriving, there are a couple of signs on the lamp posts and on inspection it does say 'No stopping', however the sign is approximately A4 in size and the words 'No stopping' is rather small - there was certainly no way I could have seen it whilst driving along the road. In addition, there were 2 men stood on the pavement waiting for people to momentarily stop and they would then scuttle over and take a sneaky photograph - in fact, during my revisit which lasted approximately 2 minutes, they had taken photographs of 2 cars that briefly pulled up at the side of the road!!


The fine is for £60.00 with an increase to £100.00 if I do not pay within 28 days. I really cannot bring myself to pay it because it is clear that this has been setup to catch out drivers.


What is my best route herein? Should I ignore all correspondence or should I write back?


If I do write back, should I ask them to justify their loss? Should I state that I parked up (in fact, my brake lights are on in the picture that they have on their letter), read the conditions on the sign, decided not to park there and then drove off?


Any help would be appreciated.


Thanks


Matt

catfunt

You need to read the NEWBIES thread.
You may need to read through it 2-3 times for the info to go in.

This lot are IPC, so anything to do with BPA and POPLA won't apply.
This is the sort of moneymaking scam that has everything to do with scamming motorists and nothing to do with parking enforcement.

Are they:

** Claiming it's a contractual charge?

** Mentioning the Protection of Freedom Act and saying that the keeper is liable?

If they are claiming a contractual charge, then signage is important, and also there was a recent case where the judge dismissed a claim as you cannot contractually agree to something that is prohibited.

You need to get a photo of the signs, both at the entrance of the "private" area of the road, and along it... host on Tinypics or similar and post a link here. AS you're new, you wont be able to post links, so remove the "http" part and someone else will add it for you.

Trying to find the location on Street View, the only place I can find is by the River Irwell which had UKPC signs up as of Jun 2015.

MattNorth

Thanks Cat.


Will take some photographs at some point this week and will then repost.


Presumably I should get some close up photographs as well as ones from far away, in other words from the angle and view point of a driver.

MattNorth

Just seen your edited post.


There is no mention of it being a contractual charge, albeit that it does refer to it being a 'Parking Charge'.


There is no mention of that Act, however they do mention the registered keeper.


Re street view: You're probably best searching for New Quay Street, Manchester and then zooming in. The Water Street that my fine is reference to is located close to the River Irwell, and close to New Quay Street, Quay Street, Gartside Street and Hardman Square - hopefully you should be able to find it from that information.


My route was going into Manchester, namely driving down Irwell Street/New Quay Street (across the river Irwell) and then taking a left turn off New Quay Street and onto Water Street (you'll notice that Water Street is a one way street).


Re signage. There are signs viewable from Street view, however I don't think these are the exact ones that are in place today, albeit they are very very similar in terms of appearance and size.

MattNorth

catfunt wrote: »

You need to read the NEWBIES thread.
** Claiming it's a contractual charge?

** Mentioning the Protection of Freedom Act and saying that the keeper is liable?

Re post above. Quoted.

catfunt

I think I have the right place, near the college and the part of Water Road that leads to the Spinningfields multi-storey.

Yes, take plenty of pics: -

At the entrance of the road, signs from a distance, signs close up (if there is two of you, then one to stand by the sign with a foot ruler next to it, pics that show the orientation of the signs compared with the direction of travel, any that show an indication of private land on entrance and along the road.

If it's just the UKPC signs that have been replaced with ES Parking ones, and nothing else, then that is shocking and totally unreasonable.
There are no signs on entering the road that it is private property, I wonder if that has changed?

It is probably worth checking with the council or highways agency to check that the road really is private/unadopted.

Who manages the Spinningfields multi-storey?

Couple more questions - what was the date of the parking event and the date on your notice to keeper?
Hold back on your appeal till more knowledgeable people have commented... you don't need to do this today.

MattNorth

catfunt wrote: »

I think I have the right place, near the college and the part of Water Road that leads to the Spinningfields multi-storey.

Yes, take plenty of pics: -

At the entrance of the road, signs from a distance, signs close up (if there is two of you, then one to stand by the sign with a foot ruler next to it, pics that show the orientation of the signs compared with the direction of travel, any that show an indication of private land on entrance and along the road.

If it's just the UKPC signs that have been replaced with ES Parking ones, and nothing else, then that is shocking and totally unreasonable.
There are no signs on entering the road that it is private property, I wonder if that has changed?

It is probably worth checking with the council or highways agency to check that the road really is private/unadopted.

Who manages the Spinningfields multi-storey?

Couple more questions - what was the date of the parking event and the date on your notice to keeper?
Hold back on your appeal till more knowledgeable people have commented... you don't need to do this today.

It looks like you're in the right spot (the road is only roughly 40 metres long). The exact point that I pulled in is towards the end of the street and on the right hand side of the road (basically where the red and white barrier is that acts as the entrance to a small, off road car park that has space for approximately 10 cars - note that there were no cars in the car park at the time of my 'offence'. I pulled into the entrance to that car park.


The signage is essentially identical to that shown on street view, the only change being the name on the sign.


I'm not entirely sure who owns the mutli storey car park, presumably NCP but I'm not sure.


Re your questions, date of event was 12 April and date of the letter is 18 April.


Just another point to raise again, my brake lights are on in the picture that they've taken and they have only provided an incident time and not an incident period (e.g. between 5:00pm and 5:45pm).

catfunt

ah. so have they invoiced you for stopping on the road, or for stopping in the entrance to the car park?

I think it also might be an idea if you can scan in the PCN, remove any identifiable information (PCN no, name/address/vehicle reg, and any barcodes or QR codes on the paperwork, and post on an imaging site as above?

The_Deep

The letter claimed that Water Street is privately owned and that it is a no stopping road.

Not according to Google street view.

catfunt

The_Deep wrote: »

The letter claimed that Water Street is privately owned and that it is a no stopping road.

Not according to Google street view.

The Google Street View images are from June last year, and the signs are UKPC ones.
I am assuming that the area is no longer UKPC, but ES Parking Enforcement, and that is why we need up to date pics of the signs as I have outlined above.

MattNorth

catfunt wrote: »

The Google Street View images are from June last year, and the signs are UKPC ones.
I am assuming that the area is no longer UKPC, but ES Parking Enforcement, and that is why we need up to date pics of the signs as I have outlined above.

See links re pictures of the letter:


h ttp://tinypic.com/m/jg2vbq/2


h ttp://tinypic.com/m/jg2vbr/2


I will be taking and uploading photographs of the street and signs tomorrow evening.