Planning permission

Barnby

Should my conveyancing solicitor have compared the APPROVED building plans from the local council with the conveyancing pack sent from the builder. The property is a new build by a national house builder. We have also descovered that the property has been built on land part of which they do not own it is causing major problems. Land registry have rejected the new application because the builder does not own the land. I feel the solicitor should have checked the planning from the council to confirm that the property has been built to the APPROVED plan. They builder is now applying for new planning. We have been living in our caravan for 12 weeks so far with our belongings in storage costing nearly £80 a week. The completion was originally quoted as February/,March. We do not currently have a new date. Any suggestions of help would be appreciated.
One further note... The solicitor we are using was the one which the builder offered a £500 discount if we used them. :wall::wall:

D_M_E

Developer built a property on land which the developer does not own and the land registry refuse to register because of this?

I would stop trying to buy such a property.

The developer should not have built on or included land which is not theirs and such a build would also not be included in the planning permission for the development and until this has all been sorted - which could take months - the developer should not have sold such a property.

I think your only option is to walk away and find somewhere else to buy and don't use the agent's/developer's solicitors.

AnnieO1234

How much land are we talking? A few inch strip or most of the house?

Has exchange taken place?

Has the builder given any indication what is happening with regard to this "other land"? Xxx

xylophone

Do you mean that you have exchanged on a property part of which has been built on land not owned by the vendor?

System

You don't have to own land to get planning permission for it.
A deed plan for land registry is a different drawing showing different information so I'm not sure how they would know what was included in the planning permission?
The developer also doesn't have to sell you all the land shown on the planning permission, not sure why anything requires a new planning permission or how that relates to land registry, would be easier/quicker/cheaper to amend the deed plan.
Definitely sounds like there's more to this than just the information at hand

davidmcn

the_r_sole wrote: »

You don't have to own land to get planning permission for it.
A deed plan for land registry is a different drawing showing different information so I'm not sure how they would know what was included in the planning permission?
The developer also doesn't have to sell you all the land shown on the planning permission, not sure why anything requires a new planning permission or how that relates to land registry, would be easier/quicker/cheaper to amend the deed plan.
Definitely sounds like there's more to this than just the information at hand

Yes, I think the OP might be conflating two different issues - the solicitor is meant to check that the land they are acquiring is owned by the builder, irrespective of whether it has any planning permission. It sounds like that hasn't happened. (so much for the builders' pet solicitors at least being familiar with the title deeds etc!)

If they're sorting this by rejigging the development in some way to fit the builder's existing title, that might need a planning application to amend the existing consent. But hardly surprising that hadn't been predicted if nobody had noticed the first point.

PasturesNew

You haven't completed.
Have you exchanged?

It's a bit confusing as to whether you expected to exchange & complete ... and are camped out now, awaiting exchange... or what.

AlexMac

As you have used the solicitor recommended by the builder for an alleged 'saving' of £500 (and I though there was no such thing as a free lunch, or a cheap conveyance!) they may be less inclined to do their job, which is protecting you from the builder/developer. After all, they are getting business from them.

But, unhelpful smart4ss comments aside, they (your solicitors) are accountable to you, not the builder, and do have a duty of care to you.

That responsibility however, is shared, in that you are responsible for entering a deal with your eyes open. Once when I bought, our very experienced solicitor's clerk went through the lease and plans with a toothcomb and found tiny discrepancies in the site plan and redline; ignored in several previous sales, but which she insisted the vendor rectify before exchange.

On a later purchase, the younger solicitor sent us the plans from the land registry and insisted we inspect and confirm that what we look at waht we were buying and its boundaries and confirm that these aligned with the plans. She also asked us to check that a couple of old protected trees (on a TPO plan) were in place and that the one which had been felled (with 30-year-old planning permission) had been replaced as the permission required. Thorough or what... but putting the onus on us to check?

Another case in point; when once I worked for a Housing Association, I had to sort out the mess that the builder had put a block up almost 3 metres out of place- some years prior; so mistakes happen; no one had noticed that while selling leases to the shops on the ground floor which by now had a disputed, unmaintained, no-mans-land strip of mud outside their frontages

So while competence varies between solicitors, they are obliged to serve you competently, and you're now in a mess, presumably having exchanged on the baisi of a 'report on title' which the solicitor normally gives you in writing before you sigh? But becuse they didn't check, or ask you to check, or couldn't be 4rsed, you have incurred expense, suffered delay and inconvenience, and further likely hassle, extra accommodation cost etc?

So start by asking your solicitor how it can be fixed, while simultaneously researching the law society complaints procedure - google it - which begins by you making a complaint within the solicitor's own complaints procedure. Ask 'em what theirs is.

And be clear about what outcomes you expect. At worst, you might have to consult another solicitor to ask what redress you have... But give your guys a chance to explain first?

Land_Registry

Pretty much already covered by other posters but to reaffirm
Planning normally requires the applicant to confirm they own the land - I believe in most cases that is a simple part of the form and there is no burden on them to actually prove that they do. The planning authority deals with the type/style and materials being used for example so would not make any checks to confirm your ownership.

Invariably they accept a land registry title plan for location purposes only

We then deal with the registered title so we are focused on who owns what and the general boundaries/extent. What is erected is of no significance to us unless the walls for example are the boundary.

The planning and land registration processes are not directly linked.

When you buy a property the solicitor will not visit it or examine the boundaries/building etc for themselves. How far they can or do investigate is explained by AlexMac and often there is some reliance on the buyer to check the boundaries/building for example.

I doubt if this is an issue over a few inches as such a small measurement cannot be accurately shown on a title plan for example. So I am assuming there is a significant distance involved.

Barnby

After 6 months wrangling with the builder and landowner the problem was resolved. I ditched the builders solicitor and was given compensation by the boss. The landowner agreed to transfer the land to the builder and builder will transfer to us when all legal titles and land registry is sorted. Planning permission by local authority had to be resubmitted and garage relocated to a better position for us. We agreed an indemnity insurance to cover any failure to do the transfers. Moved in and very happy. Had to deal with all the builder and planning myself as new solicitors fees were astronomic. MD of building firm (National Builder) very helpful and understanding.
Lesson learned...Do Not use recommended solicitor . By the way the "conveyancer" of the solicitor was previously struck off by the Law Society for malpractice. I found this out then ditched them.

Barnby

Correct. See later post for final outcome