Replacing static caravan for a permanent dwelling

Golden_Oldie

My father-in-law has owned 7 acres of green belt land for 22 years. He bought the land, which had and still has a static caravan on it, plus also a barn and 5 stables.

Up until the last couple of years they've always had at least 2 horses that have been used for riding but sadly within the last couple of years the last two have passed away and doesn't have plans on having anymore.

I have discussed with my in-laws about the possibility of getting rid of the static caravan which has seen better days and looking into the possibility of having a permanent dwelling built in its place.

I was wondering whether they'd have problems obtaining planning permission. If so what ways could they possibly get away with not having to apply for planning permission?

Browntoa

they will have problems getting planning permission


an approach direct to the planning dept without a formal planning request is your best route. They are normally very helpful if asked and will let you know what is and what is not allowed and the chances of obtaining planning


My great uncle owned an orchard on green belt land and was never allowed to build any sort of permanent dwelling

Hoploz

Yes they will definitely have trouble getting permission for a new dwelling within the green belt.

They might also find there are covenants attached to the land on the deeds which state what they can and can't do, which will be separate restrictions to the council planning dept.

lincroft1710

Planning permission for a permanent dwelling will be required. If not obtained prepare to see your dream home reduced to rubble by a council bulldozer.

A static caravan is not in itself a dwelling. Was it ever used as somebody's home? Is there planning permission for it to be used as a dwelling? Even if the answer to both questions is yes, you may find the pp only permits a mobile home or had a time limit was has long ago expired or has some other onerous condition.

It can be easier climbing Everest than trying to obtain pp for a dwelling in the green belt, some councils are worse than others but pp is unlikely to be forthcoming unless it is occupied by a person engaged in agriculture on that land.

Browntoa

some people near me attempted to build on Green belt by buying small plots of farm land and putting a static home on it. They then tried to claim they were working orchards but it failed planning scrutiny


http://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/how-get-planning-permission-non-development-land


The DIY Farm/Smallholding
Another tactic open to single house-holds is to buy a suitable piece of agricultural land and submit an 'agricultural prior notice consent form' to the local planning office detailing the agricultural building you intend to build on your land. This is 'permitted development' on agricultural land and hence doesn't need planning permission. You should receive consent within 28 days and are then entitled to commence building.
You can then legally site a temporary mobile home on the land to live in whilst you build your barn (and set up your business). Your temporary accommodation can remain in place for five years (presumably as long as you are still building your barn) during which time you need to develop your business to generate as much income as possible.
At the end of five years you apply for planning permission to build a house. You must prove that you need to live on-site in order to run your business, e.g. caring for livestock that breed all year round, and that your business generates sufficient income to support you

Golden_Oldie

lincroft1710 wrote: »

unlikely to be forthcoming unless it is occupied by a person engaged in agriculture on that land.

So if he were to purchase some cows or sheep do you think he would stand more of a chance, alternatively could the barn be converted to a dwelling?

marksoton

Golden_Oldie wrote: »

So if he were to purchase some cows or sheep do you think he would stand more of a chance, alternatively could the barn be converted to a dwelling?

who knows?
You're missing the salient point. He needs to approach HIS local planning department.

Davesnave

Browntoa wrote: »

some people near me attempted to build on Green belt by buying small plots of farm land and putting a static home on it. They then tried to claim they were working orchards but it failed planning scrutiny


http://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/how-get-planning-permission-non-development-land


The DIY Farm/Smallholding
Another tactic open to single house-holds is to buy a suitable piece of agricultural land and submit an 'agricultural prior notice consent form' to the local planning office detailing the agricultural building you intend to build on your land. This is 'permitted development' on agricultural land and hence doesn't need planning permission. You should receive consent within 28 days and are then entitled to commence building.
You can then legally site a temporary mobile home on the land to live in whilst you build your barn (and set up your business). Your temporary accommodation can remain in place for five years (presumably as long as you are still building your barn) during which time you need to develop your business to generate as much income as possible.
At the end of five years you apply for planning permission to build a house. You must prove that you need to live on-site in order to run your business, e.g. caring for livestock that breed all year round, and that your business generates sufficient income to support you

If you look into the detail, one needs a certain amount of land (around 15 acres comes to mind) before being able to go down the permitted development route for erecting a new barn.

Golden_Oldie wrote: »

So if he were to purchase some cows or sheep do you think he would stand more of a chance, alternatively could the barn be converted to a dwelling?

Barns that have become redundant and which have existed for more than 10 years may be eligible for conversion to residential use under a relatively new piece of legislation known as Class Q:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/part/3/crossheading/class-q-agricultural-buildings-to-dwellinghouses/made

As you can see, it's not simple to work out possible compliance, so you might want to do some reading around the subject or take specialist advice before approaching the planning dept. Some councils are much more clued-up than others and some have been seen as quite hostile to the idea.

Davesnave

marksoton wrote: »

who knows?
You're missing the salient point. He needs to approach HIS local planning department.

Maybe not just yet.;)

Planning depts are notorious for giving bad off the cuff advice. Not all of them, but I've had/heard enough!

Golden_Oldie

Thanks Davesnave. Some interesting reading there. I'm gonna have to seek some legal advice methinks.

patman99

I don't know if it still holds true, but (back in 2013 when Grand Designs covered it), if you lived in a static caravan on a piece of land for 10 years, you earned the right to construct a permanent dwelling without applying for PP.
This is why Council's never give Travellers more than 7 years temp. PP for caravans on sites the travellers own.

This is one of those questions that really needs to be put to a properly qualified planning consultant.