Negotiating after survey, offer already received?

Scampy

Hi,

We have now had our full survey back and found there is more work than we had realised. Originally we had an estimate for £3,000. but it looks like that will now be more than doubled (not including the more trivial points).

We had thought that damp was caused by leaky guttering but we are now likely need to get a dpc put in as well as rebuilding the chimney stack and other additional work.

We also need to get the electrics checked (and possibly brought up to code), and wood burner serviced.

We did negotiate originally based on the fact work would be required but I would have gone lower had I known all this. The seller did say that they were at their bottom line regardless of what a survey would show, but also that there shouldn't be any surprises. I had always said I'd need to see the survey first.

I'm wondering the best way to go about this now as we are quite far along the process and if it wasn't for all this could be looking at dates to exchange /complete. I believe the seller is quite keen to move as quickly as possible.

If we do negotiate down does that mean getting a revised offer? Could it be time consuming? Could it raise concerns with the lender when they are otherwise happy?

Would anyone recommend asking the seller to arrange the servicing and electrics checks to save some money on our end, or is it best to do everything ourselves?

Any comments appreciated!

AnotherJoe

Scampy wrote: »

Hi,

We have now had our full survey back and found there is more work than we had realised. Originally we had an estimate for £3,000. but it looks like that will now be more than doubled (not including the more trivial points).

We had thought that damp was caused by leaky guttering but we are now likely need to get a dpc put in as well as rebuilding the chimney stack and other additional work.

We also need to get the electrics checked (and possibly brought up to code), and wood burner serviced.

We did negotiate originally based on the fact work would be required but I would have gone lower had I known all this. The seller did say that they were at their bottom line regardless of what a survey would show, but also that there shouldn't be any surprises.

1. You can always ask. You can point out there have been surprises. Depending how hardball you want to play and how much you want this place would be the difference between saying you'll split the difference or you want the whole amount and what your answer is if they say "no". Its not just money, the disruption from rewiring and new DPC could be considerable.

2. If they refuse, then it depends how much you want it. You could argue that with new DPC and electrics then you are adding value or at worst will get back what you spent.

3. It might be disruptive to the process. Again comes down to how much you want it as to whether to take the chance.

4. Never ever never get the vendor to do the work. You dont know what the quality will be like, you have no control over it, and they might decide after all that work and disruption that the house is worth more and ask for more money.

kinger101

Surveys always recommend getting the electrics checked by an electrician. And hardly any house in the UK has electrics that meet current regulations (as they are constantly updated). It doesn't imply the property has unsafe electrics. By all means instruct an inspection (at your own expense) but it's not likely to become an negotiating point (unless the vendor did some dangerous DIY stuff).

The wood burner servicing is trivial annual maintenance, but I'd want evidence it was installed by a HETAs engineer and instruct my own inspection at my own expense if I had any doubts.

Scampy

Thanks for the replies, we're waiting to hear back about the installation of the wood burner at the moment. We'll get all the checks done and see where that leaves us.

I'm not really looking to play hardball but do want to feel like we're getting a fair deal. It's quite an unusual house for the area so it's difficult to know if we're paying the right price taking into account the extra work.

We are being quite cautious every step of the way but we're first time buyers and just want to know what we're letting ourselves in for!

keith969

Wood burner service? you might want to get the flue swept (should be less than £50) but they need cleaning more than servicing

AdrianC

"Needs a DPC put in"?

Sounds like a cover-all backside-covering to me, with a side-order of lucrative make-work if this has come from a "damp survey".
When was this property originally built? DPCs have been a legal requirement since 1875.

The electrics and woodburner comments are definitely backside-covering.

You handed me that survey and tried to use those comments as a negotiating ploy, you'd be getting it straight back...

The really key question - did the surveyor downvalue the property from the offer price, and if so by how much?

amandaxx1

How old is the house?

We've just been in a similar situation. We already had 2500 taken off the asking price as the property has no modern heating system. The following survey damp problems and roof problems were found. If you are going to ask for more money knocking off you'll need to get someone to give you a quote for the work needed. We did this and the quote for roof work and damp was 7500. We will shop around once we're in but this was a figure to use to renegotiate. I went back to the ea and asked for a further 7500 off and also for electrics and solid fuel burner to be checked. I knew they wouldn't give me the full amount off but my financial advisor said to go for it, let them offer you something they feel is reasonable. They refused to check electrics and burner but took another 2500 pounds off the price. So we went for that, the house is worth it we feel.

But when I went back to ea they asked to see the quotes.for the work doing, so you'll need to get those.

Scampy

The property was believed to be from 1901 but the survey suggests it might actually be older, possibly prior to 1893. It has been altered a lot over the years.

First the lender arranged for a basic valuation which was at the offer price. We then paid for our own full survery, he has not commented on the valuation in the knowledge we had already got that sorted; I assumed that was normal but I don't know?

My paraphrasing probably isn't helping so I'll put the actual wording below.

The advice given is actually to investigate further: "dampness problems to ground floor walls with particular reference to the areas where there is rot in skirting boards".

It also says the following:

Damp proof course. The original/older part of the house was almost certainly not built with a damp proof course but there are drill holes and plastic plugs visible through the bellcast at the base of the rendering to the front and right hand side but also evident in the brickwork below the bellcast to the rendering along the left hand side despite this apparently being a fairly modern extension. These drill holes indicate that a chemical damp proof course has been installed... There are some dampness problems internally and further investigation and remedial works will be required.

Clearly, it will be essential to make the building weathertight as quickly as possible and this will be achieved by rebuilding or replacement of the chimney stack and repair or replacement
of the defective rainwater goods. However, it will then take a considerable time for the damp affected areas to dry out internally and, in fact, it is quite likely that staining and discolouration will remain as wall and plasterwork will have been contaminated by salts. This is a problem known as salt damp and you will probably need to undertake quite extensive replastering of the affected areas.

Whilst the main problem in this area does appear to be long standing rainwater penetration due to a failure to maintain the rainwater goods (section 9.5), it appears likely that the damp proof course is also defective or that there are gaps around the edges of the solid floor where ground moisture is able to rise and track into the base of the skirting board and the plaster behind. It will be necessary to carry out further investigation in these areas to determine the true cause of the problem – simply drilling and injecting more chemical fluids may not be the answer! The guarantee company, if any, or a specialist contracto should be asked to remove skirting boards and plasterwork and, if necessary, undertake appropriate testing of samples of brick and mortar dust to determine whether genuine rising damp is actually present and then to specify appropriate remedial works.

Chimney to be demolished and re-built in good quality brick with a damp proof course and detailed lead flashing. Alternatively the stack could be replaced with an appropriate metal flue pipe to retain the wood burner (we would like to keep this).

Gutters to be replaced (already knew this)

Areas requiring further investigation and/or specialist advice

Immediate repairs

1. Rebuilding of the chimney stack or provision of a replacement flue to serve the wood burning stove.
2. Overhaul/replacement of rainwater goods and waste pipes.
3. Repair of rendering where necessary.
4. Repairs to double glazed windows.
5. Servicing of the wood burning stove if you wish to retain this for future use.
6. Repairs to defective sanitary fittings.

I should be getting a quote through for the building works tomorrow but will need to go to a damp specialist for a quote from them, I still need to look into that.

Scampy

amandaxx1 wrote: »

How old is the house?

We've just been in a similar situation. We already had 2500 taken off the asking price as the property has no modern heating system. The following survey damp problems and roof problems were found. If you are going to ask for more money knocking off you'll need to get someone to give you a quote for the work needed. We did this and the quote for roof work and damp was 7500. We will shop around once we're in but this was a figure to use to renegotiate. I went back to the ea and asked for a further 7500 off and also for electrics and solid fuel burner to be checked. I knew they wouldn't give me the full amount off but my financial advisor said to go for it, let them offer you something they feel is reasonable. They refused to check electrics and burner but took another 2500 pounds off the price. So we went for that, the house is worth it we feel.

But when I went back to ea they asked to see the quotes.for the work doing, so you'll need to get those.

That does sound very similar, we are going to get the quotes together as soon as we can. Did you do all of this before or after you had your mortgage offer? I'm worried how much disruption it will all cause but obviously if we're talking thousands it will be worth it.

amandaxx1

We did it all after the mortgage offer. It's just a pain finding the appropriate trades person, arranging with ea for them to go look at what needs doing and then, for me, chasing them for a written quote!!

Getting the new mortgage offer following changing our offer took a couple of days, that was no trouble at all.

It's so similar to our situation, I was reading it thinking "did I post this a while back and have forgotten??" ��

Scampy

Well I'm pleased to hear it's not so uncommon. When I first read the survey I was really worried but am feeling a bit better about it now!