Economy 7 and predicted usage

newfoundglory

Hello everyone.

I have recently moved into a 1 bedroom refurbed flat in an old building with no gas.
The whole place has new stuff and is set up for what seems to be economy 7.

That is, four 'quantum' storage heaters (two large, two small) and an unvented hot water cylinder (which I -think- may have two 3kwh immersion heaters inside coded to 70/80 degrees). These all have off-peak/24hr switches.

There are large single-pane windows, so it can get cold. I am the first person to live here, and at check-in the off-peak reading was over 6 times the day time reading.

Electric supplier has estimated only £30 a month in electricity which doesn't sound right to me? I have never lived anywhere with economy 7 so don't have a clue....?

HappyMJ

newfoundglory wrote: »

Hello everyone.

I have recently moved into a 1 bedroom refurbed flat in an old building with no gas.
The whole place has new stuff and is set up for what seems to be economy 7.

That is, four 'quantum' storage heaters (two large, two small) and an unvented hot water tank (which I -think- may have two 3kwh immersion heaters inside). These all have off-peak switches.

There are large single-pane windows, so it can get cold. I am the first person to live here, and at check-in the off-peak reading was over 6 times the day time reading.

Electric supplier has estimated only £30 a month in electricity which doesn't sound right to me? I have never lived anywhere with economy 7 so don't have a clue....?

Why doesn't that sound right?

It can be £30/month on a good tariff.

When you say a 1 bedroom flat what exactly does that mean. I have a 2 bedroom flat that sounds smaller than yours. I've only got 2 medium radiators in living areas and one small one in the hall. Bedrooms and bathrooms don't require storage heating. Storage heating gives heat during the day and you aren't in the bedroom in the day so a panel heater is cheaper to run when you wake up in the morning and the bathroom should be very well ventilated so a storage heater wouldn't be efficient either. You would be better off using radiant heating as and when required.

Although you've got 2 immersion elements in the hot water cylinder the top one is only used as a boost to heat a small amount of water when the top of the cylinder cools too much. It should rarely come on. The bottom one heats the water at night to a higher temperature at cheap night rates. It doesn't run for 7 hours. If you haven't drawn off any water it might only need to run for an hour to bring the water up to temperature.

We pay £45 per month for energy costs. It's a smallish 58 square meter flat and the EPC estimates energy usage of 119/kWh per square meter per year.

newfoundglory

I'm just on EON's standard non-contract Economy 7... so about 16p kwh/day and 7p kwh/night plus the daily standing charge?

Its around 75 square meters i think, so maybe a bit bigger than yours. Storage heaters; two in living room, one in kitchen and one in bedroom. The bathroom has no heater, except a towel rail.

30 a month sounds too little, and frustratingly I have no way of keeping track as the electric meters are locked away in a meter cupboard controlled by the management company.

Richie-from-the-Boro

newfoundglory wrote: »

I'm just on EON's standard non-contract Economy 7... so about 16p kwh/day and 7p kwh/night plus the daily standing charge?

Its around 75 square meters i think, so maybe a bit bigger than yours. Storage heaters; two in living room, one in kitchen and one in bedroom. The bathroom has no heater, except a towel rail.

30 a month sounds too little, and frustratingly I have no way of keeping track as the electric meters are locked away in a meter cupboard controlled by the management company.

Suck it and see, this winter is about over. Billing adjustments will be made by your provider .. .. eventually, because you won't be supplying interim reads. An annual estimated read would worry me in your unglazed and probably under insulated dwelling. You could fit an Owl/BG type ring meter / monitor that would send you in-time kW use info with monthly low & high unit costs.

Two rather than one heaters at design level is both an excellent insurance and an admission that one would be overwhelmed by room size or poor insulation.Two radiated heat forms are always more comfortable and penetrative than one. Dimplex are at the top of the tree in NS space & water heating its simply second to none - if you have to be night store - Quantum is the one.

On insulation an open fireplace without a 'balloon' is an up to 20% leech on your heating costs. Good 'for purpose' curtains or internal shutters do the opposite and resist thermal transfer. Ask other dwellers of the same flats what their experiences and suggestions are, they might already have firm indications of costs and maybe suggested work a rounds on reducing costs and improving comfort.

Best of luck, questions ? just ask, lots of good helpful people here.

Dandytf

HappyMJ wrote: »

Why doesn't that sound right?

It can be £30/month on a good tariff.

When you say a 1 bedroom flat what exactly does that mean. I have a 2 bedroom flat that sounds smaller than yours. I've only got 2 medium radiators in living areas and one small one in the hall. Bedrooms and bathrooms don't require storage heating. Storage heating gives heat during the day and you aren't in the bedroom in the day so a panel heater is cheaper to run when you wake up in the morning and the bathroom should be very well ventilated so a storage heater wouldn't be efficient either. You would be better off using radiant heating as and when required.

Although you've got 2 immersion elements in the hot water cylinder the top one is only used as a boost to heat a small amount of water when the top of the cylinder cools too much. It should rarely come on. The bottom one heats the water at night to a higher temperature at cheap night rates. It doesn't run for 7 hours. If you haven't drawn off any water it might only need to run for an hour to bring the water up to temperature.

We pay £45 per month for energy costs. It's a smallish 58 square meter flat and the EPC estimates energy usage of 119/kWh per square meter per year.

I've ran Economy 7 storage heaters since 2003 in previous 1 bedroom flat + my 1 bedroom flat since 2009.

Scottish Power recent online meter readings, increase from 45p/month to 57 p/month,

Acceptable considering i'm 90% home (whilst not working mon-fri).

I've only recently switched off storage heaters until Sept time.

e.g. Your actual usage in the last 12 months Day 2,269.475 kWh
Night 2,303.308 kWh

okigen

Hi, I have just moved to an one bedroom flat of 36m2. After some calculation I worked out the average monthly bill would be £25-30 so Eon's estimate sounds quite low for a flat double my size and not well insulated.
I would put the storage heater on to see whether it can sustain heat till the evening when you need it. In my case, it is a 3.6w Dimplex fan storage heater, costing 21kw run overnight but still dead cold by the time I get home (7pm), so very useless. If the house is not insulated and you only need heater in the evening, I think running it in convection mode (i.e. In peak hours only when you need it) would be more efficient.

You can estimate energy consumption of other stuffs (washing machine, dishwasher) by looking at their manuals.

Good luck with your flat.
Oki

okigen

Forgot to add, my 3kw hot water tank costs ~7/8kw to run each time. Not much as heater but considering it runs all year round it is actually the biggest expenses.

ToomanyPies

You have a legal right of access to your meter. Ask the management company for a key.

HappyMJ

Okigen wrote: »

Hi, I have just moved to an one bedroom flat of 36m2. After some calculation I worked out the average monthly bill would be £25-30 so Eon's estimate sounds quite low for a flat double my size and not well insulated.
I would put the storage heater on to see whether it can sustain heat till the evening when you need it. In my case, it is a 3.6w Dimplex fan storage heater, costing 21kw run overnight but still dead cold by the time I get home (7pm), so very useless. If the house is not insulated and you only need heater in the evening, I think running it in convection mode (i.e. In peak hours only when you need it) would be more efficient.

You can estimate energy consumption of other stuffs (washing machine, dishwasher) by looking at their manuals.

Good luck with your flat.
Oki

Are you turning the output down to zero every night? It's not automatic you must turn the dial to zero or it will be outputting heat overnight whilst charging and in the morning when you do not require it and it will run out of heat. If you've turned it to zero when it comes to 7PM the heater will still be warm then you turn the output dial up to release heat remembering to turn it down when you go to bed.

Okigen wrote: »

Forgot to add, my 3kw hot water tank costs ~7/8kw to run each time. Not much as heater but considering it runs all year round it is actually the biggest expenses.

Is it well insulated? If I don't draw off any hot water during the day then the overnight usage is only 1kWh maybe up to 2kWh if it's winter and it's lost a lot of heat to the cold room. The standing heat losses are higher if the surrounding air is cooler. Better insulation lowers the heat loss.

For every 100 litres of hot water drawn off around 6kWh of energy is required to reheat that plus the standing losses of 1 to 2kWh per day.

The maths is 100 (litres) x 4 (factor) x 50 (temperature rise in degrees Celsius let's say from 10 degrees to 60 degrees) / 3412 (constant) = 5.86kWh

100 litres of hot water is quite a lot of hot water when you mix it with cold water it goes quite a long way. Showering at 60 degrees would burn you. I could have a 30 minute shower (or six 5 minute showers) with that much hot water. If you're on your own then use less hot water by having shorter showers or don't fill the bath quite so much for a quick wash and rinse just a small amount of water will do the job. The water used to wash your hands is small compared to bath and shower water usage. Washing machines and dishwashers heat cold water and don't use any hot water from a cylinder. A small 1 bedroom flat would be fine with a 120 litre cylinder and a larger house might have a 210 litre cylinder.

Anyway, assuming you did run out of hot water every day (which in the last year the 120 litre cylinder we have here has only run out 3 times and that was due to having two baths in a row) then 8kWh multiplied by the E7 rate of 5p/kWh is only 40p/day. £146/year. It's not that much compared to the cost of heating which can be a very high proportion of the bill.

Richie-from-the-Boro

BBC estimates on Risk temperatures
- 24°C - top range of comfort
- 21°C - recommended living room temperature
- 18°C - recommended bedroom temperature
- 16°C - resistance to respiratory diseases weakened
- 12°C - more than two hours at this temperature raises blood pressure and increases heart attack and stroke risk
- 5°C - Significant risk of hypothermia
Help Yourself - Heat Loss Reduction Values are ish !
- secondary glazing + insulated shutters 77%
- secondary glazing + heavy curtains 66%
- stand alone insulated shutters 60%
- double-glazing 55%
- honeycomb blinds 36%
- modern insulated roller blinds 22%
Help Yourself - The starting point for the cheapest tariff are !
- get on the cheapest tariff, yes check - you will never be told, you will have to find it
- an e-account, paperless, pay by direct debit
- you supply your own monthly meter readings
- know your annual energy use in kW terms and use more than one comparison site
Help Yourself - The electric blanket and onesies are your friend
Age, Mobility Problems, or Disabled should register with your energy providers 'priority services register' this will facilitate :
- Password protection schemes and identity cards
- Quarterly meter readings so you don't get estimated bills
- Annual gas safety checks
- Your meter moved so it's easier to get to
______________________________________________________

Last Night, downloaded bill - cheapest tariff - E7 - March 2016 bill - HELP BEAT CANCER FIXED PRICE ENERGY JANUARY 2018 ONLINE

- all actual 6 weekly meter reads
- stable comfortable & continual extravagance 22°C
- actual usage in the last 12 months - Night 4,143.710 kWh
- actual usage in the last 12 months - Day 4,126.261 kWh
- 50% day / night ratio, keep them full of cheap stuff, bask in 22°C
- reduce the °C, continue to keep them full of cheap stuff, pocket the £ difference
- NOTE : I've never used the 'damper' [output] in nearly 40 years

okigen

Happy MJ, yes I turned down the output to nil but it still leaks a bit gradually. My flat has large windows so the heat does leak out quite a bit. Depends on each flat I think, the only way to know whether the heater works is to put it on one day.

In winter I only need the heater for only 1 room 2 hours per night for 1-2 months which is why it works out not as much.