Fair Financial Separation (not married)

mark5

To make it clear I think you need to pay 50% of the mortgage plus child support as 2 separate payments, have the payments referenced for what they are as well.

Depending on how many nights the children spend with you I would guess about 20-25% of take home pay would be a rough maintenance figure for 2 children although I know guys who have the children half the week so pay none, just half the costs of clothes, school trips etc.

I know my mate in work gives his ex 300 per month off roughly 2000 take home, he has them 2 nights out of 8, plus some of his holidays.

itsanne

Hard_food_for_midas wrote: »

I've taken that into account. She has double the equity I have and each year the house goes up (if they go up) it generates 6 x the flat value. Remember: at the moment - I continue to pay the interest on the house - though this is the main argument...

PS The flat (though mortgage free) is crap compared to the house - there are issues galore and it's leasehold and to sell, I'd have to fork out about £15K at least to get the lease up...

Do you pay any maintenance other than the mortgage interest (and half your daughter's activities)? What you've said - or not said - suggests that you don't and it's difficult to see why there's such a difference in perceptions if you do.

Leaving aside half of your daughter's activities (as your ex pays an equal amount), looking at it from the outside it appears as if you give your ex the same amount of money as you previously contributed for the mortgage interest. You want it to continue to be the mortgage interest but she considers it to be maintenance for your children. If that's the case, she is at least partly in the right: you have to pay maintenance and can't simply call it mortgage payments. If you're paying more than you need for maintenance, it might be better to split the amount into maintenance and mortgage interest.

There's still also the issue of how the capital will be repaid.

mark5

Op how does the mortgage interest payment you make compare to a percentage of your take home salary?

Hard_food_for_midas

FBaby wrote: »

I think you really need to clarify this, with yourself and her. If that is the case that you are paying the mortgage and the reason why you feel you do have an entitlement to the equity since you left, what is your argument for not paying child maintenance? You can't have it both way, either you pay both and then can claim you are entitled to all or an element of the equity since you left, or you need to accept that what you are paying really in maintenance, even if it is the same amount than what you have always transferred to her for the mortgage.

Have you made any proposals at all?

Thanks Fbaby. I have paid all the mortgage and more to cover maintenance - I get a bill every month for half the expenses and I pay this in addition to what is the mortgage (yet, she will say this is just additional money to pay for the kids..).

The amounts I have continue to pay each month covers the whole mortgage plus more than what the CSA calculator says I should pay based on my income.

Hard_food_for_midas

mark5 wrote: »

To make it clear I think you need to pay 50% of the mortgage plus child support as 2 separate payments, have the payments referenced for what they are as well.

Depending on how many nights the children spend with you I would guess about 20-25% of take home pay would be a rough maintenance figure for 2 children although I know guys who have the children half the week so pay none, just half the costs of clothes, school trips etc.

I know my mate in work gives his ex 300 per month off roughly 2000 take home, he has them 2 nights out of 8, plus some of his holidays.

This is good advice and probably very sensible. When I'm working, I can afford more, but I've been through quiet periods...but, I still managed to make the payments..

Hard_food_for_midas

itsanne wrote: »

Do you pay any maintenance other than the mortgage interest (and half your daughter's activities)? What you've said - or not said - suggests that you don't and it's difficult to see why there's such a difference in perceptions if you do.

Leaving aside half of your daughter's activities (as your ex pays an equal amount), looking at it from the outside it appears as if you give your ex the same amount of money as you previously contributed for the mortgage interest. You want it to continue to be the mortgage interest but she considers it to be maintenance for your children. If that's the case, she is at least partly in the right: you have to pay maintenance and can't simply call it mortgage payments. If you're paying more than you need for maintenance, it might be better to split the amount into maintenance and mortgage interest.

There's still also the issue of how the capital will be repaid.

I think I've covered that in last 2 posts, yes?

Hard_food_for_midas

mark5 wrote: »

Op how does the mortgage interest payment you make compare to a percentage of your take home salary?

My income is so up and down - but working that out has just made me realise it is 42-47%; plus I pay half of the monthly expenses. Factor that in and it becomes 68%. That only leaves me with a tiny bit of tax credit each month.

This really is not sounding fair now...I've let this go on for far too long.

Feel like a right mug

itsanne

Hard_food_for_midas wrote: »

Thanks Fbaby. I have paid all the mortgage and more to cover maintenance - I get a bill every month for half the expenses and I pay this in addition to what is the mortgage (yet, she will say this is just additional money to pay for the kids..).

The amounts I have continue to pay each month covers the whole mortgage plus more than what the CSA calculator says I should pay based on my income.

Hard_food_for_midas wrote: »

My income is so up and down - but working that out has just made me realise it is 42-47%; plus I pay half of the monthly expenses. Factor that in and it becomes 68%. That only leaves me with a tiny bit of tax credit each month.

This really is not sounding fair now...I've let this go on for far too long.

Feel like a right mug

Hard_food_for_midas wrote: »

I think I've covered that in last 2 posts, yes?

Yes (other than the capital owed and how it will be paid which may have a bearing on the final outcome).


It sounds as if you have been more than fair. As you're trying to keep things amicable and don't want to incur unnecessary legal expenses, might it be useful to show your ex this thread as a starting point for discussion? (That's rhetorical.) She appears to have a different perspective on things, but it may not be based on the reality of what you need to pay as opposed to what you are paying.

You've ended up in a situation which would have been much simpler to resolve if you'd been married. I hope you can get things sorted to both your satisfactions without losing the amicable relationship which is in your children's interests as well as being much easier for you and your ex too.

FBaby

My income is so up and down - but working that out has just made me realise it is 42-47%; plus I pay half of the monthly expenses. Factor that in and it becomes 68%. That only leaves me with a tiny bit of tax credit each month.

Are you saying that your maintenance contribution is half of the monthly expenses? What is included in these expenses? Things like activities and clothing or she is also including additional electricity/gas, petrol to take them places, school meals etc...

Hard_food_for_midas

Hi all - assuming you may once again see that I have added to this post - how do I get you all back? (Is it possible you can set an alert when someone replies?)

It's been a year since I last checked in and I've just reviewed all these posts. Thank you again so much for all of you have contributed.

I had to take a job away from home (not ideal, as I missed the children so much) but it took the financial pressure off.

We're still in the same place in that we have not sorted the money situation, but we are getting on far better and the children are so much happier that we get on. Things in this respect are good and we are doing well (I hope and think) for our children...

The whole difficulty here is the battle of heart and head and whilst we both work that one through I will not take any action to jeopardise that.

I have told my ex I want to start taking baby steps to try and get back together - to try again from where we are now. We are both in a far better place. She has said she doesn't want this.

I am therefore going to have to make a move to talk to her about sorting out the head part. Obviously I do not want to, but we cannot continue with the financial worry hanging over both of us. - She's worried I may try and force her to sell; I'm worried a 3rd party waltzes in and stands to benefit from what WE built together over almost 20 years.

Having considered deeply Willow Cat's post on ToLATA law, I have been through the detail of our initial agreement and on this it is favourable on my side (I would say that, but it is) and my ex knows this. We need to either sit together and work it out - which is looking far more promising than it did a year ago - Or we go through family arbitration either civil or family route..

We tried family mediation for about 5 sessions, but it was not great. It depends so much on the quality of the mediator and whilst we had some break throughs (and a lot of pain), once the mediator brought in a so-called specialist in ToLATA cases, he made a fundamental mistake of mediation - he offered solutions far too quickly and failed to check in before offering them.

My ex threw a curve ball of how she felt her father was owed the initial deposit out the the difference in Equity before any further 'equity split' would apply. And I went into shock. I could not speak. It took me about two weeks to be able to snap out of it and calm down. This so-called tolerate 'specialist' just accepted what my ex brought into that meeting and without checking in with me, said: 'well, if that's the case, you can both walk away even.'

1) I could not believe how desperate my ex was to even mention any loan she had initially had to buy her first flat in the first place - something which bore no relevance at all to our arrangement when we bought the house!

2) That this so-called specialist (sic) jumped on it and offered a solution in a typical bloke fashion. Utterly unprofessional. I wrote a letter of complaint to the mediator when I had eventually come out of shock and she waived her fee - but, she still tried to defend him.

I said:

'I draw your attention to the Family Mediation Council - Conduct of Mediation:

6.13 Mediators must ensure each participant is given the opportunity to make enquiries about information disclosed by any other participant and to seek further information and documentation when required. They must promote the participants’ equal understanding of such information before any final agreement is reached.'

That was in June last year. My ex said she no longer wanted to go to mediation. I was still in shock.

I think what I have learned is that I have delayed reactions to things. Sometimes really long ones. I thought it was a waste of time then too, but I wanted to have a break then try and go in again when everyone had calmed down. Not to see this other guy - though, 8 months on, I reckon even he may be ok - hopefully he learned from that session.

I'm not going to rush into anything - clearly. Lawyers are not the answer here - for their sakes as well as ours and I'm confident it will not come to that.

I have tried hard to accept that I may just walk away from approx £85K-£100K that may/may not be owed to me for the net difference in Equity, but I can't. It's not fair. Ok, you may argue it is not fair she has the mortgage still to pay, but if the shoe was on the other foot - I'd do the right thing.

I'd rather have the house. My flat is not great. I am not happy here. It is full of issues. No matter how hard I try, it will not be a proper home my children want to visit. Not like the house. In order to get somewhere half decent nearby, I'd have to have that money as a deposit to leverage some sort of mortgage, but because my earnings are so inconsistent and low, I'd be struggling to get something suitable close to the children..

I haven't said this to my ex yet. She knows I'm not happy here and that clearly the children only come when they have to. They've not moved some of their stuff over. I know why. It's not a 'home.'

I need to sort out how much I am paying again too, as now I only have my part-time job income, until another piece of work comes up for my main job...as I'm going to start going under again financially..