How will leaving the EU affect the UK housing market?

Miss_Samantha

leveller2911 wrote: »

You do realise we won't be kicking out "hundreds of Thousands of EU migrants" don't you?. Actually there something like 800,000 Polish people here already.

I know that, but I don't think many who want out realise it.

leveller2911 wrote: »

The truth is they will stay and work in the same way they do now. They just won't be eligible for benefits. The UK will also have the power to decide in the future how many new EU migrants we allow to enter...

As said several times, this might be what you wish for but no-one knows because that would depend on what other agreements the UK would leave in addition to leaving the EU.

leveller2911 wrote: »

if we vote to stay in the EU we are not voting to stay in an EU as it is today.The EU is going down the Federalist route so if you're happy to be part of that then vote to remain.

That is simply not true, not least because the UK can opt out to be part of any further integration.

AdrianC

leveller2911 wrote: »

The truth is they will stay and work in the same way they do now. They just won't be eligible for benefits.

The UK could already restrict benefits to EU migrants, further than they already are. The one and only restriction our EU membership brings is that any qualification for benefits has to apply to nationals of ALL EU countries equally - British, French, German, Spanish, Polish, Lithuanian. Easy to sort that, then - bring in some kind of residence test. If you haven't been resident in the UK for <say> four years, you are not entitled to UK benefits. The problem is the tabloid headlines once the first Granny returning from a decade in monolingual denial on the Costa del Fish'n'Chips gets denied "their due"...

The UK will also have the power to decide in the future how many new EU migrants we allow to enter...

Potentially, depending on the outcome of the negotiations.

If we vote to stay in the EU we are not voting to stay in an EU as it is today. The EU is going down the Federalist route so if you're happy to be part of that then vote to remain.

The UK already has an open-ended opt-out from future treaties on closer political union.

When will the EU's Eastward Empire building stop?. They never say what the limit is to the number of countries allowed to join is.

EVERY SINGLE EU member state has an ABSOLUTE veto on any country joining the EU. Always has had, always will have. The Spanish threatened to veto an independent Scotland from joining.

There are 5 more countries shortly joining

There are five applicants, yep. Including Turkey. Doesn't mean they'll ever join.

BTW, did you know it took the UK 14yrs from first applying to actually joining? The French vetoed us twice.

and then we have Ukraine and turkey joining so when is enough enough?.

Ukraine haven't even applied for membership.
Turkey first applied for membership in 1987 and are, if anything, further from reaching all the accession marker standards than they were then. Even if/when they do, do you really think that Greece and Cyprus won't veto them in seconds flat?

When will the EU reform so that the people we actually get to vote in (MEP's) are the ones who actually make the laws rather than the unelected Council of Europe?.

The Council of Europe is nothing to do with the EU at all. It is a completely separate organisation, with 47 member countries, including the UK. And Russia.

I think you mean the Council of the European Union, which is made up of the heads of government of each EU member state. Except they aren't the ones who propose legislation. You're thinking of the Commission. In effect, ministers. Each country's national government appoints one commissioner, who is then allocated a portfolio in the same way as government ministers in Westminster, except they're just appointed by the PM - mostly from MPs, sometimes from the Lords, sometimes from outside.

Your local MEP doesn't make/propose EU laws they just have the power to amend the proposed laws in the same way our House of lords do.

No. They vote on them, in the same way as they do in the House of Commons. They discuss and amend them in committees, in the same way as MPs do in Westminster committees.

The only difference is that you want a sort of European Private Members Bill. Have you seen the success rate for Private Member's Bills becoming legislation in Westminster? Roughly zero.

leveller2911

Miss_Samantha wrote: »

That is simply not true, not least because the UK can opt out to be part of any further integration.

Sorry but I don't agree. The UK may currently have an opt out but do you think the EU will allow us to stay out. If you go back to last Autumn you will see that the Eastern European states were told by the EU that if they didn't sign up to the plan to spread the migrants across all member states their EU subsidies could be at stake. This is fact and you can check online.

I would also point to the fact that when other EU states have had referendums and the results were not to the EU's liking they were [STRIKE]told[/STRIKE] asked to try again until they came up with the right decision.

I would also point to the way the EU have treated Greece in the past couple of years.

Anyone who thinks that the EU is a shining light for democracy is naive.

AdrianC

leveller2911 wrote: »

Sorry but I don't agree. The UK may currently have an opt out but do you think the EU will allow us to stay out.

They would have no choice. It is a signed agreement betwen the heads of government at the Council of the EU.

If you go back to last Autumn you will see that the Eastern European states were told by the EU that if they didn't sign up to the plan to spread the migrants across all member states their EU subsidies could be at stake. This is fact and you can check online.

You can. And you'll realise that it was Schengen, not the EU. The UK isn't a member.

I would also point to the fact that when other EU states have had referendums and the results were not to the EU's liking they were [STRIKE]told[/STRIKE] asked to try again until they came up with the right decision.

Once, 2001. Ireland was the only EU country to hold a referendum on the Treaty of Nice. The Irish government then decided to re-hold it.

I would also point to the way the EU have treated Greece in the past couple of years.

That's the Eurozone, not the EU - the UK isn't a member. (Thank goodness)

But think about the consequences if the other Euro countries HAD left the Greeks to wallow in their own economic incompetence...

leveller2911

AdrianC wrote: »

The UK could already restrict benefits to EU migrants, further than they already are. The one and only restriction our EU membership brings is that any qualification for benefits has to apply to nationals of ALL EU countries equally - British, French, German, Spanish, Polish, Lithuanian. Easy to sort that, then - bring in some kind of residence test. If you haven't been resident in the UK for <say> four years, you are not entitled to UK benefits. The problem is the tabloid headlines once the first Granny returning from a decade in monolingual denial on the Costa del Fish'n'Chips gets denied "their due"...

Exactly so we cannot stop Child benefit from being given to the children of Romanian workers who work here but who's children live in Romania. We could not prevent a Polish person coming to the UK ,apply for a NI card and as long as they had proof of self employed income they could claim Housing benefit,council Tax benefit,child tax credits,Working tax credits etc etc etc. I don't believe a "residency test" would be legal and if it was I'm pretty sure the majority of the UK people would be happy with that.

Can I also just add that Cameron's so called deal on Migrants benefits is not worth the paper it was written on. The "freeze" on migrants claiming benefits was for "up to 4 years" and on a sliding scale. Then when that "freeze" is triggered it can only be used for 7yrs and after that cannot be used in the future so in 10yrs time if the UK was being swamped by low skilled EU migrants the Govt of the day cannot use the "Benefits freeze" as a tool to cool the immigration numbers from the EU. We need high skilled immigration but we don't need unfettered low skilled immigration.

The UK already has an open-ended opt-out from future treaties on closer political union.

As I said previously if you think that will continue then its a naive stance considering the lack of real democracy in the EU.



Getting a bit off topic now so I'll shut up.......:D

leveller2911

AdrianC wrote: »

Once, 2001. Ireland was the only EU country to hold a referendum on the Treaty of Nice. The Irish government then decided to re-hold it.

Wasn't there also a vote in one of the Scandinavian countries?. The Irish Govt decided to hold a 2nd vote but we don't know how much of a role in that decision was played by the EU. Call me a cynic but I don't believe for one minute that pressure wasn't put on the Taoiseach at the time....

That's the Eurozone, not the EU - the UK isn't a member. (Thank goodness)

Remember how many big business leaders and some UK politicians at the time said it would be a disaster if the UK didn't take up the Euro?.. Those same people are telling us it will be a disaster if the UK leaves the EU.......;) They were all wrong then so what makes anyone think they are right this time?.

But think about the consequences if the other Euro countries HAD left the Greeks to wallow in their own economic incompetence...

Many of the Greeks problems were caused by the EU. Greece never met any of the criteria for joining the EU so the EU changed the criteria so they could join.This is the problem with the EU. Its a political project created by the elite with no real thought of what the final goal was. Greece should never have been allowed to join in the first place.


My point was the EU are not some kind of democratic body who we all vote into power in the way we do with our own Govt. The unelected political elite run the EU ,at least our lot are elected by the people. As I said before the MEP's we elect have no more power than anyone on the House of Lords.


I really am going to shut up now as the OP asked specifically about the Housing market...:D

AdrianC

leveller2911 wrote: »

Exactly so we cannot stop Child benefit from being given to the children of Romanian workers who work here but who's children live in Romania.

If it's such an integral part of EU membership, and only leaving the EU can stop it, how come 23 of the 28 EU countries DON'T allow it?
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/288
^ Yes, that's from MigrationWatch - the anti-migration lobby group. Hardly the most Europhilic of groups, I'm sure you'll agree...

As I said before the MEP's we elect have no more power than anyone on the House of Lords.

Yes, you did. And that just shows that you understand neither the role of an MEP nor the role of the House of Lords.

AdrianC

leveller2911 wrote: »

Wasn't there also a vote in one of the Scandinavian countries?

No.

The Irish Govt decided to hold a 2nd vote but we don't know how much of a role in that decision was played by the EU.

Except you forget one thing - the deal offered at the second referendum was different - abortion, always a hot-button in Ireland, was excluded from the Treaty, as well as other changes.

Many of the Greeks problems were caused by the EU. Greece never met any of the criteria for joining the EU so the EU changed the criteria so they could join.This is the problem with the EU. Its a political project created by the elite with no real thought of what the final goal was.

Again, you are confusing the EU with the Eurozone. They are different.

Miss_Samantha

leveller2911 wrote: »

Exactly so we cannot stop Child benefit from being given to the children of Romanian workers who work here but who's children live in Romania.

We absolutely can as long as the rule also applies to British citizens whose children live abroad.

Why has no-one debated child benefit in these broader terms?

AdrianC

Miss_Samantha wrote: »

Why has no-one debated child benefit in these broader terms?

Because it doesn't suit the vested interests of those doing all the shouting about it.