Question about fence ownership..

brooklyn07

I appreciate this topic has probably been done to death but here goes - this is quite complicated so apologies if I ramble...


When I purchased my property - the property information form said "not known" when the seller was asked to state who was responsible for the boundaries.


My solicitor looked into it and decided they were probably shared between the houses so put this down as gospel. I probably should have pursued this further but for whatever reason I didn't...


Anyway, the fence to my right has pretty much rotten away and I'd like to replace it, however I don't want to just go ahead with it incase it isn't mine.


The elderly lady that lived next door to the right died before I bought my property and at the moment the will has a block on it by the sons and daughters because they believed they were entitled to a share so its still in dispute after 6 years.


Then last year the freehold land was sold off to some guy in London so I'm guessing the sister now only owns the house and not the land attached to it...


coincidentally I happen to know one of the daughters who has the block on the will, but I only found this out way after I'd bought my property and was just a complete coincidence - so I asked about the fence - she told me her mum was responsible for that side it was definitely in the deeds but as she doesn't have them she couldn't prove it so now I don't really know who it belongs to...


The house is rented out but the tenants are neighbours from hell and would be no point asking them anyway as its not really their decision - the landlady is equally as bad and refuses to maintain any of the house or garden presumably because she may end up losing the house so doesn't want to spend any money on it.


I did ask the landlady when I saw her regarding the fence but she simply said "no" and was rather rude when I asked if I could replace it....


So... if you've managed to get this far.. what I would like to know is - do I even need to ask permission from the landlady as the freehold land was sold to someone else - do I need to ask them instead?

Is going straight to the leaseholder going to mean the landlady is going to be seriously cheesed off with me as I'd already asked and she said no and I've effectively gone behind her back.


I bought a copy of the title deeds off land registry for the house next door but unfortunately there were no plans on there just the name of the person that owns it (its still in the name of the lady that died) and then another one which gives the name of the leaseholder and the amount paid but no actual plans showing boundaries etc.


I have thought of various other options i.e putting a fence my side, planting some shrubs etc but for lots of reasons this wont work so that's not an option - the only option really is replacing the panels that sit within the concrete posts.


I'm more than happy to do this at my expense because I know I wont get a dime out of the landlady but I just need the go ahead which I don't seem to be able to get...


any advise greatly appreciated - I don't want to get into any sort of disputes as I'm hoping to sell the house next year...

Dan-Dan

Tell the tenants its your fence and you plan to replace it on given date

Job done, doubt anyone, anywhere will care

brightontraveller

Dan-Dan wrote: »

Tell the tenants its your fence and you plan to replace it on given date

Job done, doubt anyone, anywhere will care

That would be pretty stupid and could open person up to whole end of grief? [FONT=&quot]Especially as they have asked others who have refused permission an open and shut case if the were to pursue it and as there is animosity between beneficiaries and no settlement in 6 years I’d say high chance that they would seek legal recourse on an unrelated person they must be there solicitors best clients? [/FONT] If there unsure who owns it/is responsible and don’t wish to find out through solicitors etc or seek appropriate permissions? Fence up on there own land e.g chain link would loose an inch are they saying there isn't an inch of spare land ?

Also there are Title Register and Title Plans do they have both?

brooklyn07

There was just title register on the land registry website but no plans - im assuming the sister has the deeds but I don't imagine she will be in any hurry to share them with me!

phoenix_w

brightontraveller wrote: »

That would be pretty stupid and could open person up to whole end of grief?

Only if the owners of next door were complete lunatics.

TheCyclingProgrammer

Firstly I'm not entirely sure why you want to replace the fence at your cost - it should be the responsibility of the fence owner which is either your landlady or the owner of next door (which as you say is under dispute).

The deeds may say who is responsible for each boundary but not who owns the fence unless there is some kind of covenant that says each owner must maintain a fence on the boundary they are responsible for and even then hat doesn't necessarily prove ownership as anyone can erect a fence on their side of the boundary.

If you want to erect a new fence at your own cost then perhaps the simplest thing to do would be to erect one inside your property's boundary. You may want to run this past your landlady as even though one one hand she's getting a new fence for free she may be concerned it obligates her to maintain it in the long term whereas now she doesn't have to maintain the fence.

lstar337

Just put the fence up inside the other one, a few inches on to your property.

I don't think you can force a neighbour to put up a fence anyway, especially if they don't have the funds to do so.

If you put up the fence on your own land then you have complete control over how it looks, e.g it can look lovely on your side and if necessary it can look truly awful on the neighbours side. Not that I would suggest such a thing!

brooklyn07

Thanks for the replies - just to clear some things up though.. I own my house, I don't have a landlady - the landlady I'm referring to is the house owner next door, she has tenants in the house.


I could put a fence up my side but would lose quite a bit as the concrete posts that her fence panels are in sit more over my side than hers so to put posts my side there would be a gap down the middle - how would I stop weeds/grass growing up inside this gap? Plus part of my garden is patio, i would need to rip part of this up to get posts in right?

brightontraveller

phoenix_w wrote: »

Only if the owners of next door were complete lunatics.

Courts are full of lunatics ? Those that believe erecting fence on others land brings no chance of repercussions deffo nutters ?
Advising not only erect a fence on someone else's land but lie as well yes that's much better than doing it properly :rotfl:
But hey its easy to say on a forum do this and that it at the end of the day its the OP that ends up paying for moronic advice

Manxman_in_exile

Might this site be helpful?


http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/fences.html


In all the houses we've owned the title deeds and plans have been no use whatsoever in determining fence ownership. Title plans are far too small scale to identify boundaries accurately, let alone fence position. The red line supposedly delineating our boundaries would be about a metre wide on the ground. Is it the inside of the line or the outside? I don't know.


(Edit: I'm talking about houses 100 + years old here. I suppose more modern deeds and plans may contain sufficient detail)

lstar337

Exactly. These things come up all the time, and the only way to be 100% safe is to put your own fence on your own land.

Try to look at it this way, if you had no care or need for a fence, would you pay to have one put up on your land for somebody else' convenience?