Economy 7 Tarrif error - where do we stand?

WoodcutterBoris

Hello everyone,

We've been with British Gas for gas and electricity since September 2011 when we moved into our current address.

Our property is old and costs us a fortune to heat and power - about 180 per month in electricity alone!

I've always thought this was too high and recently scrutinised our bills to see what could be 'wrong'.

I noticed that we're on the Economy 7 tariff which charges 17+pence per KWh as opposed to 13p per KWh on a standard tariff. Our bills show figures for night and day rates and we do have the appropriate meter fitted but the Economy 7 has never been used and our 'night rate' figure has never changed.

We've mentioned this to the meter reader on a couple of occasions but have been told something to the effect that 'it's not enabled' or some such. I guess the property must have once used Economy 7 (there are no storage heaters now) but at some point the previous tenant must have asked for it to cease or it'd still be working.

I've scrutinised the bill, and what set me thinking was the part where they say 'we've checked and you're on the best applicable tariff' - well... clearly, with a night rate that never changes we're not on the right tariff and are paying about 3-4pence per KWh too much. We've contacted them and put the above scenario to them and they changed our tariff immediately. There was a bit of a silence when my partner mentioned 'the overpayment' we'd made because of this but pretty quickly they agreed to refund us about £500 for the previous year.

We obviously feel that BG have failed to notice that we're on the wrong tariff since 2011 and we've asked them to re-pay us for the last five years. Naturally they didn't immediately offer to repay in full and have now got back to us offering a further 'good will' payment which is a proportion of what we think they owe us. It also occurs to me that they must at some point have been told that the Economy 7 wasn't required any more (or it'd be working now) and have not switched the property over to the correct tariff...

I'm struggling to discover what our rights are in this matter. It seems straightforward, but BG are saying that they have no obligation to re-pay.

Can anyone help?

Bark01

The tariff check element you talk about was introduced into supplier license conditions on 31st March 2014. If you have a claim it can probably only go back to this date.

In reality all BG had to do was place a saving message on your bill, they didn't need to sing and dance about it. The saving message should be displayed on the front page (right hand column) of each and every bill you've received since the date above. It should be under a section titled ‘could you pay less’. Part of the license conditions states the saving message should cover customers on multi rate tariffs who could save money by swapping onto a single rate tariff.

If BG haven’t done this then they have a case to answer. If they have shown a cheaper single rate then It would have been up to take action based on the savings and they wouldn't have a case to answer.

The fact they have given you £500 already would suggest they have done something wrong. Ask them how they calculated the £500

dogshome

You have been a victim of 'Cheap Fix' handling that can happen when a household who has an ECO7 meter, puts in Gas and wants the meter changed to a Standard one.

The correct method is a physical change of meter which is then registered on Regional Data base for Elect meters

The 'Cheap Fix' involves the supplier offering to keep the ECO7 meter, but with billing on Standard rates by adding the two readings together.
The problem is, this is only governed by a note on that customers account and when the house changes hands, it will revert to ECO7 billing because that is the type of meter that is registered on the Regional Data base

Some suppliers charge to change the meter, but some don't - I know EDF do it for free as they have just changed my daughters

Cardew

dogshome wrote: »

You have been a victim of 'Cheap Fix' handling that can happen when a household who has an ECO7 meter, puts in Gas and wants the meter changed to a Standard one.

The correct method is a physical change of meter which is then registered on Regional Data base for Elect meters

The 'Cheap Fix' involves the supplier offering to keep the ECO7 meter, but with billing on Standard rates by adding the two readings together.
The problem is, this is only governed by a note on that customers account and when the house changes hands, it will revert to ECO7 billing because that is the type of meter that is registered on the Regional Data base

Some suppliers charge to change the meter, but some don't - I know EDF do it for free as they have just changed my daughters

The OP has stated that:

Our bills show figures for night and day rates and we do have the appropriate meter fitted but the Economy 7 has never been used and our 'night rate' figure has never changed.

I have an E7 meter and am currently with BG but not on an E7 tariff i.e. what you term the 'cheap fix' adding the two readings together.

However the off-peak meter reading still changes and the bill will show the old meter reading and new reading and that total number of units will be added to the peak reading total and treated as a single total.

As I read the OP's post, nothing is connected to the off-peak meter. This would indicate that originally the OP's property had the older form of Economy 7 where the house was wired such that only storage heaters and immersion heater were on off-peak rates. All other electricity was at peak rate 24/7. The later versions of Economy 7 allowed all electricity to be at off-peak rates for 7 hours.

It is probable that the wiring was altered such that all electricity passed through the peak rate meter and the off-peak meter disconnected.

[Deleted User]

If the night rate reading is nt advancing, as it clearly should , is the OP s day rate registering for the full 24 hours or is the OP s getting his night rate for free and BG don`t owe you a penny? Here is the OP, 5 years in the property and has only just "noticed " that the night rate has nt budged .OK , the suppliers should program their auto billing systems to notice this and enquire why its not moved but the OP is equally responsible to run his own affairs and check and understand his energy usage. £500 is an excellent amount to recoup and I think Id grab at that especially as the OP has brought it on himself for his negligence in checking his own meters as he is obliged to do and to report any faults in the meter .Its tucked away in the T and Cs about faulty meters. £500 is enough to cover when OFGEMS rules to advise about better tariffs started in 2014.

WoodcutterBoris

Cardew wrote: »

The OP has stated that:




I have an E7 meter and am currently with BG but not on an E7 tariff i.e. what you term the 'cheap fix' adding the two readings together.

However the off-peak meter reading still changes and the bill will show the old meter reading and new reading and that total number of units will be added to the peak reading total and treated as a single total.

As I read the OP's post, nothing is connected to the off-peak meter. This would indicate that originally the OP's property had the older form of Economy 7 where the house was wired such that only storage heaters and immersion heater were on off-peak rates. All other electricity was at peak rate 24/7. The later versions of Economy 7 allowed all electricity to be at off-peak rates for 7 hours.

It is probable that the wiring was altered such that all electricity passed through the peak rate meter and the off-peak meter disconnected.

Thanks - this might explain what's gone on.

Where does this leave us? BG have replied stating that they shouldn't have repaid us the 1 year overpayment, but in the next sentence have offered a further £600+ as a 'good will' gesture.

I'd like them to pay us back the (as much as) £2000 we seem to have overpaid since 2011. I think they've essentially admitted liability by making the initial repayment but are now trying to wriggle out of it. The whole complaint has been a catalogue of errors; there's much more to this than I've posted...

What do you think? Ombudsman? Or re-tell the whole story, including their errors and offer them 14 days to re-pay in full first?

Bark01

So have they given you over £1.1k (500+600)?

Ask BG how they have calculated any amounts and yes also go to the ombudsmen.

Cardew

WoodcutterBoris wrote: »

Thanks - this might explain what's gone on.

Where does this leave us? BG have replied stating that they shouldn't have repaid us the 1 year overpayment, but in the next sentence have offered a further £600+ as a 'good will' gesture.

I'd like them to pay us back the (as much as) £2000 we seem to have overpaid since 2011. I think they've essentially admitted liability by making the initial repayment but are now trying to wriggle out of it. The whole complaint has been a catalogue of errors; there's much more to this than I've posted...

What do you think? Ombudsman? Or re-tell the whole story, including their errors and offer them 14 days to re-pay in full first?

To be perfectly frank I think the £500 refund was a mistake by BG.


If I understand you correctly you are claiming that you are paying 17p/kWh on an E7 tariff and would be paying 13p/kWh on a Non-E7 tariff; i.e. 4p/kWh difference.


You were being charged the correct rate for your tariff, albeit it was an inappropriate tariff. Millions of people are on inappropriate tariffs and they get no rebate; so I am not sure that you are entitled to any rebate! i.e. buyer beware! and you obviously hadn't checked.

Cardew

To clarify the above about inappropriate tariffs.


I believe the 'break even' point for BG economy 7 tariffs is approx. 40%* off-peak usage of the total electricity consumption. i.e. if you use less than 40% off-peak you would be better off on a standard one rate 24/7 tariff. Use more than 40% and E7 is advantageous.


Now there must be millions?? of people(not just BGas) on E7 tariffs that are inappropriate because they don't use enough off-peak electricity. Loads of people have had storage heaters removed and Gas/oil Central Heating fitted, yet remain on an E7 tariff because, like the OP, they can't be bothered to check or are incapable of understanding the tariffs. They might only use 5% or 10% off-peak. So they, like the OP, are paying more than necessary, and could have been paying this for 20 years or more.


If there is some precedent that enables the OP to be entitled to a refund because BGas were at fault, surely all of these millions would be also entitled to a refund.


*I use 40% because that was the figure last time I looked

[Deleted User]

Hi,

WoodcutterBoris wrote: »

We've been with British Gas for gas and electricity since September 2011 when we moved into our current address.

I've always thought this was too high and recently scrutinised our bills to see what could be 'wrong'.l

You should've scrutinised your first bill over four years ago, and now you are blaming BG for your lack of observance.

BG don't know if are using appliances overnight on the E7 tariff, maybe you go to bed and switch everything off before the E7 switches over.

Be happy with the 'compensation' you are getting, you used the units, and obviously you didn't miss the money whilst you were paying over the period, or you would've queried things before now, so why grumble now?

macman

BG have no idea how you heat and hot water your house, and care less. Clearly some years ago the NSH's were removed, and a gas supply installed along with gas CH-there is no way that BG could know that, and even if they did, E7 still works for some houses with gas CH and DHW anyway, though not many. The owner at the time was incompetent and failed to change the metering to single rate. I fail to see why you expect BG to compensate you for failing to check your bills over 4 and a half years, from which it must have been quite obvious that everything was being charged at peak rate? How many times have you submitted meter readings in this time, as it would also have been clear from them that the night rate register was not moving?